Lumifer comments on [Link] A Darwinian Response to Sam Harris’s Moral Landscape Challenge - Less Wrong

1 Post author: TheSurvivalMachine 20 May 2015 01:44PM

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Comment author: gjm 20 May 2015 03:31:56PM 1 point [-]

So what's the actual proposition being asserted by "fitnessism"?

  • "People and/or other animals actually act so as to maximize genetic fitness"? That isn't true; see, e.g., the first link in DeVliegendeHollander's comment.
    • Further, I don't see how to get from there to any sort of ethical theory. There's no valid inference from "people do X" to "people should do X". You might as well look at gravitation and conclude that virtue consists of proximity to large massive objects.
  • "'Acting so as to maximize genetic fitness' is a principle that approximates actual people's and cultures' ethical systems, but unlike them has some kind of scientific underpinning"? That also seems to me to be very untrue (the problem being the first half more than the second); see, e.g., the rest of DVH's comment.
  • "We should act so as to maximize genetic fitness"? Well, if you define "should" according to "fitnessism" then this is true but vacuous; if you define it according to most other ethical systems it's very false (here I'm just repeating my previous claim); if you define it to mean "According to the actual, real, One True Morality" then it's question-begging.

It looks to me as if the path to "fitnessism" goes like this: (1) Contemplate evolution. (2) Conclude that people (and other animals) act so as to maximize their genetic fitness (this is error #1, conflating adaptation execution with fitness maximization). (3) Conclude that "right" means something like "tending to maximize genetic fitness" (this is error #2, conflating ought with is).

Perhaps I'm missing something important; Survival Machine, would you care to set me straight?

Comment author: Lumifer 20 May 2015 03:55:06PM *  3 points [-]

You might as well look at gravitation and conclude that virtue consists of proximity to large massive objects.

But of course it does! It's not by accident that expressions "head in the clouds" or "flighty" signal disapproval, while "has his feet firmly planted on the ground" is praise :-D

Comment author: DanArmak 20 May 2015 04:00:27PM 0 points [-]

Indeed, "gravity" means serious thought or speech, as opposed to "levity". Weightiness is also good.

Comment author: Salemicus 20 May 2015 04:24:37PM 6 points [-]

Ah, but it is good to be light-hearted, light as a feather, floating on air, on cloud nine, to have a light touch, make light work or to tread lightly, whereas it is bad to be ponderous, heavy-footed, weighed down, find things heavy going, throw your weight around, make heavy weather, or to carry the weight of the world on your shoulders.

There is a great deal of linguistic tension between whether "heavy" or "light" is good, one that exists in many different languages. See also the lengthy discussion on "heavy" versus "light" at the start of The Unbearable Lightness of Being.