Here is my ranking of religious people, in lessening order of how irritating I find them:
Fundies that don't try to make sense, have an inconsisten set of beliefs, which ends up boilng down to societal rules that are abhorrent to the Liberal Social Democrat Humanist. They will behead you if you meet a certain number of more-or-less reasonable criteria. They will not feel sorry about it.
Moderates that don't try to make sense, , have an inconsisten set of beliefs, which ends up boilng down to societal rules that are pleasant to the Liberal Social Democrat Humanist. They will not behead you, ever. They might feel guilty about not doing it.
Fundies that do try to make sense, have a mostly consistent and sensible set of beliefs, which is based on the literal revealed text, understood as well as possible, using the original language, with all the modern tools of hermeneutics and linguistics, who don't care about any sensibilieties, modern or traditional, only about those of their chosen Prophet(s). They will behead you if you meet a certain number of clearly established, sensible, consistent criteria that are applied at all times to everyone. They may or may not feel sorry about it, and they may or may not try to apply as much clemency as the rules allow them.
Yup. The last ones, I can tolerate best. It takes a lot of courage, and a lot of fortitude, as well as other "virtues", to be a true, honest follower of your own religion. It requires a lot of selflessness, and a lot of sacrifice. I had been trying to be one ever since I was a child. And all I found around me were people in the first and second category. There were exceptional, modern Muslim reformists like that Tarik Ramadan (of whom I still think eh is a pretty cool guy, as fundies go), who tried to give Muslims who had a mind towards modernity and competitiveness and consistency and justice an acceptable workframe to do that within Islam. But then I stumbled upon this place and found out that the thing I was striving for, consistency, is unattainable in religion.
In other words, all those people are wasting their time.
You could say I took a sort-of scenic route to rationality, by wanting to be a real Muslim, one that did everything the Qran and Muhammad would want him to do (including figuring out what exactly they'd want me to do), consistently and coherently. Islam makes it more difficult to do than Christianity and Judaism because it is almost bare, pure Theism, and until I read Relgion's Claim to be Non-Disprovable, I thought the system was still salvageable. Well, so much for all that time wasted to angst. (Now instead I waste time ranting...)
Agreed that consistency is very important. However, I think that your #3ers, even though they correctly push their system very hard, are actually behaving in a very irrational way.
Being willing to let inconsistencies slide (as the #1ers and #2ers do) violates the important rationalist rule of noticing when you are (or ought to be) confused. However, it's a much less dangerous response than chasing down confusion but refusing to let the results adjust your moment-to-moment world model! In other words, #3ers are only doing the first half of a scientific or m...
People who grow up believing certain things,
even if they later stop believing them,
may not quite realize how the beliefs sound to outsiders...
(SCENE: A small cottage in Nazareth.)
Joseph: Mary, my dearest fiancée, there's something I've been meaning to talk to you about.
(Mary's shoulders slump. Slowly, as if under a heavy burden, she turns around to face Joseph.)
Joseph: You seem to be getting fat around the waistline, and throwing up in the morning, and, er, not getting any periods. Which is odd, because it's sort of like -
Mary: Yes! I'm pregnant! All right? I'm PREGNANT!
Joseph: How is that possible?
(Mary's shoulders slump further.) Mary: How do you think?
Joseph: I don't know, that's why I'm asking you. I mean, you're still a virgin, right?
(Mary looks up cautiously, and sees Joseph's face looking blankly puzzled.)
Joseph: Well?
Mary: God did it.
Joseph: You had sex with -
Mary: No! Haha. Of course not. I mean, God just snapped his fingers and did one of those miracle things and made me pregnant.
Joseph: God made you pregnant.
Mary: (Starts to sweat.) Yes.
Joseph: Mary, that is just so... completely...
(Mary's eyes squeeze shut.)
Joseph: ...COOL!
(Mary opens her eyes again, cautiously.)
Mary: You think so?
Joseph: Of course! Who wouldn't think so? Come on, we've got to tell everyone the news!
Mary: Maybe we should keep this between just the two of us -
Joseph: No, no, silly girl, this is way too important! Come on!
(Joseph grabs Mary's wrist and drags her out of the house. SCENE: The gathering square of Nazareth. A dozen well-dressed men, and the town's head rabbi, look on Joseph and Mary impatiently.)
Rabbi: What's this all about, Joseph? I trust there's a good reason for the fuss?
Joseph: Go ahead, Mary! Tell them what you told me.
Mary: Um... (She swallows.) God made me pregnant.
Rabbi, looking stern, yet understanding: Now, Joseph, you know you're not supposed to do that before -
Joseph: No, no, you don't get it! She's still a virgin! God made her pregnant directly!
(There's a long pause.)
Man #1: So, what you're saying here, basically, is that Mary tells you she's a virgin.
Joseph: Uh huh!
Man #2: And you haven't had sex with her.
Joseph: Uh huh!
Man #3: And now she's pregnant.
Joseph: Precisely!
Man #4: So you think that God did it.
Joseph: What other explanation could there be?
Rabbi: Joseph, that is just so... unbelievably...
(Mary holds her breath.)
Rabbi: NEAT!
(Mary exhales.)
Man #5: A miracle! A miracle right here in Nazareth!
Man #6: Wow! I thought that miracles only happened in Jerusalem!
Man #7: Come on! Let's spread the good news!
(They depart. SCENE: Mary is alone with her friend, Betty, in Betty's house.)
Betty: "God did it."
Mary: I panicked! It was all I could think of!
Betty: So who's the real -
(Mary lifts an eyebrow significantly. There's a brief pause.)
Betty: Ah. So that's why the rabbi went along with it.
Mary: Well, he thinks he's the father, anyway. Why, does it matter?
Betty: It puts some things in a different light.
Mary: Like what?
Betty: The rabbi has been telling all the pretty young girls that you, Mary, are the ultimate embodiment of feminine virtue, and when they grow up, they should be just like you -
Mary: I just feel so awful about the whole mess. What kind of thing is this to have hanging over my child's life?
Betty: You've got to put things in perspective, dearie. You told one little white lie. It's not as if you caused the fall of the Roman Empire.
Mary: But what if the Romans hear about it? I don't want my baby to end up being crucified!
Betty: No one's going to obsess about it that long. In a couple of months this whole thing will blow over.
Mary: I hope you're right...
(Exeunt Omnes.)