JoshuaZ comments on The Amazing Virgin Pregnancy - Less Wrong

22 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 24 December 2007 02:00PM

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Comment author: JoshuaZ 29 April 2011 02:10:56PM *  0 points [-]

But if you are being rational, you should avoid contradictions--that is a norm. If you are being moral, you should avoid doing unto others what you would not wish done unto you. If you are playing chess, you should avoid placing the bishop on a square that cannot be reached diagonally from the current one. No-one makes you follow those rules, but there is a logical relationship between following the rules and playing the game: you cannot break the rules and still play the game. In that sense, you must follow the rules to stay in the game.

Are you asserting that being "moral" is just like a game with a set of agreed upon rules? That doesn't fit with your earlier claims (e.g. this remark)and on top of that seems to run into the problems of people not agreeing what the rules are. Note incidentally, that it is extremely unlikely that any random intelligence will either know or have any desire to play chess. If you think the same applies about your notion of morality then there's much less disagreement, but that doesn't seem to be what you are asserting. I am confused.

Comment author: wedrifid 29 April 2011 02:15:30PM 1 point [-]

Are you asserting that being "moral" is just like a game with a set of agreed upon rules?

Agreed upon? Most of the game is in making up rules and forcing them on others despite their disagreement!

Comment author: NMJablonski 29 April 2011 02:26:05PM 1 point [-]

Upvoted for levity! Whew, we needed it.

Comment author: NMJablonski 29 April 2011 11:31:36PM 1 point [-]

I am tremendously confused as to why this and the parent were downvoted. Clearly I should just stop posting.

Comment author: JohnH 29 April 2011 11:41:05PM 2 points [-]

Or quit caring about the voting system.

Comment author: NMJablonski 29 April 2011 11:59:45PM *  -1 points [-]

That is also an option.

Although it would be unpleasant, I think, to be the loud guy at the party who no one wants to be there. Still, I overreacted, I think. It was a relatively small number of my posts that were received negatively, and absent an explanation of why they were, all I can do is work on refining my rationality and communication skills.

Edit: Downvoted lol

Further edit: This could be like rejection therapy for karma. Everyone downvote this post!

Comment author: JoshuaZ 29 April 2011 02:26:21PM *  2 points [-]

Agreed upon? Most of the game is in making up rules and forcing them on others despite their disagreement!

Although that happens with other games also, when there's a disagreement about the rules. It just seems to be a smaller fraction of the game and something that everyone tries to avoid. There are some games that explicitly lampshade this. The official rules of Munchkin say something like (paraphrase) " in a rules dispute whoever shouts loudest is right."

Comment author: Peterdjones 29 April 2011 03:44:42PM -1 points [-]

I'm arguing that there is a sense in which one "should" follow rules which has nothing to do with human-like agents laying down the law, thereby refuting NMJ's attempt at a link between objective morality and theism.

There are constraints on the rules games can have (eg fairness, a clear winner after finite time). There are constraints on rationality (eg avoidance of quodlibet). Likewise, there are constraints on the rules of moral reasoning. (eg. people cannot just make up their own morality and do what they want). Note that I am talking about metaethics here.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 29 April 2011 04:27:43PM 1 point [-]

I'm arguing that there is a sense in which one "should" follow rules which has nothing to do with human-like agents laying down the law, thereby refuting NMJ's attempt at a link between objective morality and theism.

So this is the exact opposite of a chess game. So what do you mean by your analogy?