advael comments on The Brain as a Universal Learning Machine - Less Wrong

82 Post author: jacob_cannell 24 June 2015 09:45PM

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Comment author: jacob_cannell 23 June 2015 08:07:50PM *  12 points [-]

Thanks, I was waiting for at least one somewhat critical reply :)

Specifically, I think you fail to address the evidence for evolved modularity: * The brain uses spatially specialized regions for different cognitive tasks. * This specialization pattern is mostly consistent across different humans and even across different species.

The ferret rewiring experiments, the tongue based vision stuff, the visual regions learning to perform echolocation computations in the blind, this evidence together is decisive against the evolved modularity hypothesis as I've defined that hypothesis, at least for the cortex. The EMH posits that the specific cortical regions rely on complex innate circuitry specialized for specific tasks. The evidence disproves that hypothesis.

Damage to or malformation of some brain regions can cause specific forms of disability (e.g. face blindness). Sometimes the disability can be overcome but often not completely.

Sure. Once you have software loaded/learned into hardware, damage to the hardware is damage to the software. This doesn't differentiate the two hypotheses.

In various mammals, infants are capable of complex behavior straight out of the womb. Human infants are only exhibit very simple behaviors and require many years to reach full cognitive maturity therefore the human brain relies more on learning than the brain of other mammals, but the basic architecture is the same, thus this is a difference of degree, not kind.

Yes - and I described what is known about that basic architecture. The extent to which a particular brain relies on learning vs innate behaviour depends on various tradeoffs such as organism lifetime and brain size. Small brained and short-living animals have much less to gain from learning (less time to acquire data, less hardware power), so they rely more on innate circuitry, much of which is encoded in the oldbrain and the brainstem. This is all very much evidence for the ULH. The generic learning structures - the cortex and cerbellum, generally grow in size with larger organisms and longer lifespans.

This has also been tested via decortication experiments and confirms the general ULH - rabbits rely much less on their cortex for motor behavior, larger primates rely on it almost exclusively, cats and dogs are somewhere in between, etc.

This evidence shows that the cortex is general purpose, and acquires complex circuitry through learning. Recent machine learning systems provide further evidence in the form of - this is how it could work.

For all the speculation, there is still no clear evidence that the brain uses anything similar to backpropagation.

As I mentioned in the article, backprop is not really biologically plausible. Targetprop is, and there are good reasons to suspect the brain is using something like targetprop - as that theory is the latest result in a long line of work attempting to understand how the brain could be doing long range learning. Investigating and testing the targetprop theory and really confirming it could take a while - even decades. On the other hand, if targetprop or some variant is proven to work in a brain-like AGI, that is something of a working theory that could then help accelerate neuroscience confirmation.

There seems to be a trend in AI where for any technique that is currently hot there are people who say: "This is how the brain works. We don't know all the details, but studies X, Y and Z clearly point in this direction." After a few years and maybe an AI (mini)winter the brain seems to work in another way...

I did not say deep learning is "how the brain works". I said instead the brain is - roughly - a specific biological implementation of a ULH, which itself is a very general model which also will include any practical AGIs.

I said that DL helps indirectly confirm the ULH of the brain, specifically by showing how the complex task specific circuitry of the cortex could arise through a simple universal learning algorithm.

Computational modeling is key - if you can't build something, you don't understand it. To the extent that any AI model can functionally replicate specific brain circuits, it is useful to neuroscience. Period. Far more useful than psychological theorizing not grounded in circuit reality. So computational neuroscience and deep learning (which really is just the neuroscience inspired branch of machine learning) naturally have deep connections.

Some of the most successful deep learning approaches, such as modern convnets for computer vision, rely on quite un-biological features such as weight sharing and rectified linear units

Biological plausibility was one of the heavily discussed aspects of RELUs.

From the abstract:

"While logistic sigmoid neurons are more biologically plausible than hyperbolic tangent neurons, the latter work better for training multi-layer neural networks. This paper shows that rectifying neurons are an even better model of biological neurons and yield equal or better performance than hyperbolic tangent networks in spite of . . "

Weight sharing is unbiological: true. It is also an important advantage that von-neumman (time-multiplexed) systems have over biological (non-multiplexed). The neuromorphic hardware approaches largely cannot handle weight-sharing. Of course convnents still work without weight sharing - it just may require more data and or better training and regularization. It is interesting to speculate how the brain deals with that, as is comparing the details of convent learning capability vs bio-vision. I don't have time to get into that at the moment, but I did link to at least one article comparing convents to bio vision in the OP.

"Deep learning" is a quite vague term anyway,

Sure - so just taboo it then. When I use the term "deep learning", it means something like "the branch of machine learning which is more related to neuroscience" (while still focused on end results rather than emulation).

Perhaps most importantly, deep learning methods generally work in supervised learning settings and they have quite weak priors: they require a dataset as big as ImageNet to yield good image recognition performances

Comparing two learning systems trained on completely different datasets with very different objective functions is complicated.

In general though, CNNs are a good model of fast feedforward vision - the first 150ms of the ventral stream. In that domain they are comparable to biovision, with the important caveat that biovision computes a larger and richer output parameter map than most any CNNs. Most CNNs (there are many different types) are more narrowly focused, but also probably learn faster because of advantages like weight sharing. The amount of data required to train the CNN up to superhuman performance on narrow tasks is comparable or less than that required to train a human visual system up to high performance. (but again the cortex is doing something more like transfer learning, which is harder)

Past 150 ms or so and humans start making multiple saccades and also start to integrate information from a larger number of brain regions, including frontal and temporal cortical regions. At that point the two systems aren't even comparable, humans are using more complex 'mental programs' over multiple saccades to make visual judgements.

Of course, eventually we will have AGI systems that also integrate those capabilities.

days of continuous simulated gameplay on the ATARI 2600 emulator to obtain good scores

That's actually extremely impressive - superhuman learning speed.

Therefore I would say that deep learning methods, while certainly interesting from an engineering perspective, are probably not very much relevant to the understanding of the brain, at least given the current state of the evidence.

In that case, I would say you may want to read up more on the field. If you haven't yet, check out the original sparse coding paper (over 3000 citations), to get an idea of how crucial new computational models have been for advancing our understanding of cortex.

Comment author: advael 25 June 2015 09:08:52PM *  1 point [-]

For e.g. the ferret rewiring experiments, tongue based vision, etc., is a plausible alternative hypothesis that there are more general subtypes of regions that aren't fully specialized but are more interoperable than others?

For example, (Playing devil's advocate here) I could phrase all of the mentioned experiments as "sensory input remapping" among "sensory input processing modules." Similarly, much of the work in BCI interfaces for e.g. controlling cursors or prosthetics could be called "motor control remapping". Have we ever observed cortex being rewired for drastically dissimilar purposes? For example, motor cortex receiving sensory input?

If we can't do stuff like that, then my assumption would be that at the very least, a lot of the initial configuration is prenatal and follows kind of a "script" that might be determined by either some genome-encoded fractal rule of tissue formation, or similarities in the general conditions present during gestation. Either way, I'm not yet convinced there's a strong argument that all brain function can be explained as working like a ULM (Even if a lot of it can)

Comment author: jacob_cannell 25 June 2015 10:58:35PM *  3 points [-]

Have we ever observed cortex being rewired for drastically dissimilar purposes? For example, motor cortex receiving sensory input?

I'm not sure - I have a vague memory of something along those lines but .. nothing specific.

From what I remember, motor, sensor, and association cortex do have some intrinsic differences at the microcircuit level. For example some motor cortex has larger pyramidal cells in the output layer. However, I believe most motor cortex is best described as sensorimotor - it depends heavily on sensor data from the body.

a lot of the initial configuration is prenatal and follows kind of a "script" that might be determined by either some genome-encoded fractal rule

Well yes - there is a general script for the overall architecture, and alot of innate functionality as well, especially in specific regions like the brainstem's pattern generators. As I said in the article - there is always room for innate functionality in the architectural prior and in specific circuits - the brain is certainly not a pure ULM.

Either way, I'm not yet convinced there's a strong argument that all brain function can be explained as working like a ULM (Even if a lot of it can)

ULM refers to the overall architecture, with the general learning part specifically implemented by the distributed BG/cortex/cerbellum modules. But the BG and hippocampal system also rely heavily on learning internally, as does the amygdala and .. probably almost all of it to varying degrees. The brainstem is specifically the place where we can point and say - this is mostly innate circuitry, but even it probably has some learning going on.

Comment author: [deleted] 26 June 2015 11:52:55PM 1 point [-]

For e.g. the ferret rewiring experiments, tongue based vision, etc., is a plausible alternative hypothesis that there are more general subtypes of regions that aren't fully specialized but are more interoperable than others?

It's far more likely that different brain modules implement different learning rules, but all learn, than that they encode innate mental functionality which is not subject to learning at all.

Comment author: advael 27 June 2015 01:31:56AM *  1 point [-]

I'm inclined to agree. Actually I've been convinced for a while that this is a matter of degrees rather than being fully one way or the other (Modules versus learning rules), and am convinced by this article that the brain is more of a ULM than I had previously thought.

Still, when I read that part the alternative hypothesis sprung to mind, so I was curious what the literature had to say about it (Or the post author.)