VoiceOfRa comments on Open Thread, Jun. 22 - Jun. 28, 2015 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: Gondolinian 22 June 2015 12:01AM

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Comment author: OrphanWilde 26 June 2015 04:02:28PM 1 point [-]

PUA success varies by region and local culture. In some urban areas, anecdotally, women have started judging men's PUA "game".

I think it pattern-matches on a "correct" behavior, but is self-defeating; it pattern-matches on the idea that women, like men, want to have casual sex. The "correct" behaviors, are indeed, being something of a jerk, but is self-defeating because it assumes rudeness is the desired quality, rather than a signal of a desired quality: Jerks aren't likely to pester you for follow-up dates, which is to say, they are actually interested in strictly casual sex.

It's self-defeating, because as soon as men who are interested in more meaningful relationships start utilizing the technique of being a jerk, being a jerk stops being a useful signal of -not- being interested in more meaningful relationships. (Being -very good- at being a jerk, on the other hand, probably -does- pattern-match pretty well with interest in strictly casual sex, hence the anecdotal accounts of women judging PUA "game".)

The whole thing gets messier on account of individual differences. Some women want to be hit on, some don't, some want one approach, some want another, some are receptive to the idea of longer-term relationships, some aren't - in short, women are people, too. No single "framework" is going to accommodate everybody's desires, and those who push a monoculture ideal are being narrow-minded. And dating signaling is, frankly, terrible, and often abused, intentionally or unintentionally. (Women signaling desire for casual sex to get free drinks, men signaling desire for long-term relationships to get casual sex, for two of the common complaints.)

Getting outside that, my personal practice is to strike up random conversations with strangers; small talk is the grease the gets conversation going. Treat small talk as a skill with a toolbox of techniques. Your toolbox should contain a list of standard questions for strangers; what do you do for a living, who are you rooting for in (current sports competition), where were you born, how did you end up in this hellhole, etc. The more you do it, the better you get, or at least the more comfortable. Small talk with other smokers while smoking helped my conversational abilities immensely, although for obvious reasons I wouldn't necessarily advocate that.

Comment author: VoiceOfRa 01 July 2015 02:40:40AM -1 points [-]

I think it pattern-matches on a "correct" behavior, but is self-defeating; it pattern-matches on the idea that women, like men, want to have casual sex. The "correct" behaviors, are indeed, being something of a jerk, but is self-defeating because it assumes rudeness is the desired quality, rather than a signal of a desired quality: Jerks aren't likely to pester you for follow-up dates, which is to say, they are actually interested in strictly casual sex.

The reason women who want causal sex are attracted to Jerks isn't because they aren't likely want follow up dates, it's because if getting the father to help raise the kids id out of the question, you want the best possible sperm. Granted today the women is likely to use a condom or abort because she doesn't want children, but that's adaptation execution for you.

Comment author: OrphanWilde 01 July 2015 01:55:20PM 0 points [-]

Are you an evolutionary strategy? Do your preferences all reduce down to evolutionary strategies?

Comment author: VoiceOfRa 02 July 2015 03:40:26AM 0 points [-]

My preferences are shaped by my genes (which were shaped by evolution), and my experiences as interpreted by the systems built by my genes.