g_pepper comments on Rationality Quotes Thread July 2015 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: elharo 01 July 2015 11:04AM

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Comment author: CCC 24 July 2015 01:54:14PM 3 points [-]

Monopolies are the reward for innovation (~COMPETITION can be bad for business, and monopolies drive progress)

I am going to disagree vehemently with the notion that monopolies drive progress.

Telkom spent a long time as a fixed-line telecommunications monopoly, and South Africa still has terrible fixed-line internet costs as a result.

Monopolies, as far as I can see, will almost always relax once their monopoly is secure and just keep doing things the same way all the time, holding onto their monopoly. (Sometimes they will even attempt to squash competitors before they grow large enough to threaten said monopoly). Companies in competition, on the other hand, will improve their offerings and/or lower their prices in order to attract more customers. Therefore - and this is borne out by the Telkom example - I conclude that monopolies lead to stagnation, while healthy competition is more likely to lead to progress.

Comment author: Lumifer 24 July 2015 04:18:05PM 3 points [-]

You seem to interpret "progress" as "lower prices" :-)

While I think that Clarity is misunderstanding Peter Thiel (Thiel says that a potential monopoly is the carrot that drives a lot of innovation; Clarity wrongly interprets this as "monopolies drive progress"), the question of monopolies and progress is complicated. The two major examples that come to mind are Bell Labs (run by AT&T) and IBM (in the 1950s - 80s era).

Comment author: g_pepper 24 July 2015 05:33:25PM 3 points [-]

The two major examples that come to mind are Bell Labs (run by AT&T) and IBM (in the 1950s - 80s era).

Assuming you are referring to IBM's mainframe business, they did not really have a monopoly; they were just a dominant player. Competitors at that time included Amdahl, Burroughs, UNIVAC, NCR, Control Data, Honeywell, General Electric and RCA. Amdahl even offered products that were compatible with IBM's mainframe offerings and could run software developed on/for IBM.

Comment author: Lumifer 24 July 2015 07:13:05PM *  3 points [-]

Given the context, I'm interpreting "monopoly" loosely and include being the dominant player in the definition.

Thiel talks about how you would want to parlay your technological (or first-mover) advantage into a monopoly and he clearly means companies like Microsoft or Google which are not legal monopolies like AT&T was.