Squark comments on MIRI's Approach - Less Wrong
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Comments (59)
Even though I come from a somewhat different viewpoint, I was fairly impressed with the case you are presenting. Nonetheless . ..
This is not quite fully accurate. Yes anybody can download a powerful optimizer and use it to train a network that they don't understand. But those are not the people you need to worry about, that is not where the danger lies.
The concern that ML has no solid theoretical foundations reflects the old computer science worldview, which is all based on finding bit exact solutions to problems within vague asymptotic resource constraints.
Old computer science gave us things like convex optimization, which is nothing interesting at all (it only works well for simple uninteresting problems). Modern AI/ML is much more like computer graphics or simulation, where everything is always an approximation and traditional computer science techniques are mostly useless. There is no 'right answer', there are just an endless sea of approximations that have varying utility/cost tradeoffs.
A good ML researcher absolutely needs a good idea of what is going on under the hood - at least at a sufficient level of abstraction. The optimization engine does most of the nitty gritty work - but it is equivalent to the researcher employing an army of engineers and dividing the responsibility up so that each engineer works on a tiny portion of the circuit. To manage the optimizer, the researcher needs a good high level understanding of the process, although not necessarily the details.
Also - we do have some theoretical foundations for DL - bayesian inference for one. Using gradient descent on the joint log PDF is a powerful approximate inference strategy.
It appears you are making the problem unnecessarily difficult.
Why not test safety long before the system is superintelligent? - say when it is a population of 100 child like AGIs. As the population grows larger and more intelligent, the safest designs are propagated and made safer.
This again reflects the old 'hard' computer science worldview, and obsession with exact solutions.
If it seems really really really impossibly hard to solve a problem even with the 'simplification' of lots of computing power, perhaps the underlying assumptions are wrong. For example - perhaps using lots and lots of computing power makes the problem harder instead of easier.
How could that be? Because with lots and lots of compute power, you are naturally trying to extrapolate the world model far far into the future, where it branches enormously and grows in complexity exponentially. Then when you try to define a reasonable utility/value function over the future world model, it becomes almost impossible because the future world model has exploded exponentially in complexity.
So it may actually be easier to drop the traditional computer science approach completely. Start with a smaller more limited model that doesnt explode, and then approximately extrapolate both the world model and the utility/value function together.
This must be possible in principle, because human children learn that way. Realistically there isn't room in the DNA for a full adult utility/value function, and it wouldn't work in an infant brain anyway without the world model. But evolution solved this problem approximately, and we can learn from it and make do.
It is an error to confuse the "exact / approximate" axis with the "theoretical / empirical" exis. There is plenty of theoretical work in complexity theory on approximate algorithms.
There is difference between "having an idea" and "solid theoretical foundations". Chemists before quantum mechanics had a lots of ideas. But they didn't have a solid theoretical foundation.
Because this process is not guaranteed to yield good results. Evolution did the exact same thing to create humans, optimizing for genetic fitness. And humans still went and invented condoms.
When the entire future of mankind is at stake, you don't drop approaches because it may be easier. You try every goddamn approach you have (unless "trying" is dangerous in itself of course).
Though humans are the most populous species of large animal on the planet.
Condoms were invented because evolution, being a blind watchmaker, forgot to make sex drive tunable with child mortality, hence humans found a loophole. But whatever function humans are collectively optimizing, it still closely resembles genetic fitness.
Looking at Japan, that's not self-evident to me :-/
That's a bad example. You are essentially asking researchers to predict what they will discover 50 years down the road. A more appropriate example is a person thinking he has medical expertise after reading bodybuilding and nutrition blogs on the internet, vs a person who has gone through medical school and is an MD.
I'm not asking researchers to predict what they will discover. There are different mindsets of research. One mindset is looking for heuristics that maximize short term progress on problems of direct practical relevance. Another mindset is looking for a rigorously defined overarching theory. MIRI is using the latter mindset while most other AI researchers are much closer to the former mindset.