RichardKennaway comments on Open Thread - Aug 24 - Aug 30 - Less Wrong

7 Post author: Elo 24 August 2015 08:14AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 24 August 2015 11:37:44AM *  3 points [-]

Is sexual relationship between two consenting adult siblings ethically okay and should it be legal? It's an interesting ethical problem because there are so many complicated dimensions and it could go either way. I think generally when it comes to social issues our society seems to head in a right direction, people are becoming more tolerant of people who choose differently and so on, but incest between siblings seems to become maybe more taboo even though there are some rational justifications you could make for it.

Some have made parallels to homosexuality as in it doesn't directly hurt either of the sides of this kind of relationship. There are social problems, I mean if I got to choose I wouldn't like any of my relatives to get together because that would evoke feelings of disgust, unnecessary drama and awkwardness, but I think I would have said the same thing about homosexuality 70 years ago. In theory inbreeding shouldn't be a problem, but in practice it probably is. Even though contraception is widespread in this day and age, if large number of siblings have sex with each other, some of them will inevitably end up having kids.

German ethics council decided that it should be legal because it's a person's fundamental right and people's right to self-determination is more important than the protection of your family.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 24 August 2015 11:44:57AM 2 points [-]

In theory inbreeding shouldn't be a problem, but in practice it probably is.

In both theory and in practice, it is a problem: the offspring are more likely to have faulty genomes than the offspring of unrelated people.

But why are you raising this issue? The practical answer is known, and adequately accounts for the feelings around it.

Comment author: [deleted] 24 August 2015 11:56:37AM *  1 point [-]

In both theory and in practice, it is a problem: the offspring are more likely to have faulty genomes than the offspring of unrelated people.

You could make having offspring illegal. Why must these people have kids? You can get contraception cheaply everywhere nowadays. Does it hurt people more if they can't have kids, than if it were completely illegal? By making relationships between siblings legal, but making offspring illegal you would appreciate people's right to self-determination but still take care of the practical issues in some way.

But why are you raising this issue?

Because it's good ethical practice to try to work out what to do with controversial issues when the answer is not completely clear. There's a reason why that German ethics council thinks it should be legal.

Comment author: Creutzer 24 August 2015 03:14:25PM *  1 point [-]

The practical problem is, of course, enforcing this prohibition on procreation. Forced sterilisation is difficult to sell and problematic because the subjects might wish to have children with other people. RISUG might be a solution, once it becomes available.

I'm not sure what I think of the fact that everyone is concerned with the genetics of possible offspring in the case of incest, but nobody minds two chronically depressed, highly neurotic people, one of whom has a hereditary autoimmune condition, procreating... (The domain of quantification for the slightly hyperbolic "everyone" and "nobody" here is the general public rather than LW. I suspect that many in this community would, in fact, mind the latter case as well.)

Comment author: RichardKennaway 24 August 2015 07:46:44PM -1 points [-]

Because it's good ethical practice to try to work out what to do with controversial issues when the answer is not completely clear.

I see no visible controversy around the issue.

There's a reason why that German ethics council thinks it should be legal.

I don't read German except with more effort than this is worth, although I note that it begins by mentioning a case of a brother and sister having four children together and public consternation over their prison sentence. What reasons does that report give? It is that it considers the German law as it stands an unsatisfactory way to deal with the undesirability of incest, or that society should recognise incestuous relationships as equal to all others? There is a big difference. How does the report propose to handle the negative consequences of inbreeding? Or have you not read any further than ryot.org?