I think discussions about applied debaising are discussions about finding a best way to interpret situations
Isn't debiasing more about removing errors in your thinking or finding situations in which you should take a more formalised and objective approach. By "finding a best way to interpret situations" I meant basically finding ways to interpret situations so that the solution is simpler. If you can find out that a new problem X is really just another version of problem Y, then this can be extremely useful as you can draw upon pre-existing solutions to problem Y.
Another example from a movie I saw is:
Twenty random cards are placed in a row all face down. A move consists of turning a face down card face up, and turning over the card that is immediately to its right. Show that no matter what the choice of cards to turn, this sequence of moves must terminate (with all the cards facing up).
This problem can be simply solved once you see face up cards as 1 and face down cards as 0 in binary.
Discussions about how to choose reference classes inside/outside views are about seeing things from multiple perspectives.
That is just one different perspective that is often useful. In general, I view this as an example of looking at a situation from an objective perspective.
Here is a quote from feynman's Character of Physical Law (p. 53) which I think describes what I mean.
Mathematically each of the three different formulations: Newton’s law, the local field method and the minimum principle, gives exactly the same consequences. [...] They are equivalent scientifically [...] But, psychologically they are very different in two ways. First, philosophically you like them or do not like them; and training is the only way to beat that disease. Second, psychologically they are different because they are completely unequivalent when you are trying to guess new laws. As long as physics is incomplete, and we are trying to understand the other laws, then the different possible formulations may give clues about what might happen in other circumstances. In that case they are no longer equivalent, psychologically, in suggesting to us guesses about what the laws may look like in a wider situation.
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When it comes approaches about how to think creatively about a problem and let people come up with ideas before sharing them in brainstorming, I would call that instrumental rationality.
That's my problem with instrumental rationality, almost everything can fit into it. I have two questions:
There are alignment techniques to align system one and system two from CFAR.
Do you know what the best resource is to find out about what stuff CFAR has looked into, written or produced. I have read their website and few posts about CFAR on less wrong, but that is all.
In the question about cards, the binary observation is absolutely correct but gives the impression that you need more "structure" to solve the problem than you really do. I prefer (even though it maybe yields a textually longer proof) to do it this way: sort the possible configurations lexicographically ("dictionary order", where things further left always take precedence) with up < down; and then note that every operation you do moves your configuration earlier in the order, at which point you're done.
... Oh, and the problem as stat...
In summary, the goal of this post is to start a discussion on the current meaning of 'rationality' as it is defined on less wrong. I am specifically trying to find out:
I think that the description below from the What Do We Mean By 'Rationality' post sums up the current meaning of 'rationality' as it is used on this site:
Now, I think that the definition or description of 'rationality' above is pretty good. In fact, if I wanted to introduce someone to the concept of rationality then I would probably refer to it, but I would explain that it is a working definition. This means that it conveys the general idea and that most of the time this suffices. I have no problems with working definitions. One of my favorite ideas on less wrong is the idea that words and concepts are pointers to areas in concept space. This idea allows you to use working definitions and to not waste your time on semantic issues. But, I think that an often neglected aspect of this idea is that you still need to ensure that the words you use point to the right and restricted areas in concept space. When people say "I am not here to argue about definitions", this does not abdicate their responsibility to create decent definitions. It is like saying: "hey, I know that this definition is not perfect, but I think that it's close enough that it will be able to convey the general idea that I am getting at". If that is all that you are trying to do, then avoiding refining your definitions is fine, but it should be noted that the more important and cited the concept becomes the more neccesary it is to improve the definitions of the concept.
I think the definition of rationality above has two major problems:
Perhaps the biggest issue I have with the definition is not anything to do with how it currently is, but instead with how hard it is to improve. This sounds like a good thing, but it's not. The definition is hard to improve, not because it is perfect, but because instrumental rationality is just too big. Any ideas or improvements to the definition that would seem plausible are likely to be quickly discarded as they can be made to fall into the instrumental rationality category.
I am not going to be providing a better definition of 'rationality' as the goal of this post is just to start a discussion, but I do think that a lot of the problems I have mentioned above can be best solved by first choosing a simple core definition of what it means to be rational and then having a seperate myriad of areas in which improvements lead to increases in rationality. In general, the more granularised, results-orientated and verified each of these areas is the better.
A possible parent or base definition for 'rationality' is already on the wiki. It says that 'rationality' is the: "characteristic of thinking and acting optimally". This, to me, seems like a pretty good starting point, although, I do admit that the definition itself is too concise and that it doesn't really tell us much since 'optimal' is also hard to define.
That is not to say that we don't have any idea of what 'optimal' means, we do. It is just that this understanding (logic, probability and decision theory etc.) is mostly related to the normative sense of the word. This is a problem because we are agents with certain limitations and adaptations which make it so that our attempts to do things the normative way are often impractical, cumbersome and flawed. It is for this reason that any definition of 'rationality' should be about more than just: 'get closer to the normative model'. Of course, getting closer to the results of the normative model is always good, but I still think that a decent definition of 'rationality' should take into account, for example, ecological and bounded rationality as well as the values of the agent under consideration.