Lumifer comments on Rationality Quotes Thread October 2015 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: elharo 03 October 2015 01:23PM

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Comment author: Lumifer 22 October 2015 03:32:57PM *  6 points [-]

to spread awareness of a position (again, without arguing for it)

Well, you have to at least formulate that position sensibly. From a glance at the article, it seems to like the idea of the abolition of prisons. The immediate question that comes to mind is "and replace them with what?" Without even a hint of an answer, it's not much of a position.

Long-term prisons are a relatively recent idea, but I'm not sure going to pre-prison practices would be all that great since they tended to be centered on "oh, just hang him".

Comment author: ike 22 October 2015 06:24:30PM 0 points [-]

The article claims that

  1. Having prisons is undesirable
  2. This is not feasible right now
  3. Here's this less radical proposal (no death sentence plus 10 year max), which is feasible
  4. Thinking the more radical position might be ideal (or believing in 1) will help one come to conclusions such as those in 3, which are steps in the right direction

"10 years max" is a position. The fact that the author presumably believes more (it's not that clear what they do believe, which is a weakness) doesn't make what they do directly advocate "not a position".

Comment author: Lumifer 22 October 2015 07:03:56PM 4 points [-]

Recall your original quote. It strongly hints that we should be interested in "real solutions" even if they are not politically feasible. So in the linked article I expect to find a politically infeasible "real solution". And it's there -- the author repeatedly mentions abolition of prisons. I have to assume that it's intended to be that infeasible thing which we ought to want regardless.

Comment author: ike 22 October 2015 10:13:49PM -2 points [-]

It's not clear from the article whether they would get rid of prisons tomorrow if it were politically possible. They may believe that an ideal world would not have prisons but getting rid of them overnight would be bad.

Not having a plan for getting rid of prisons or what to do instead isn't a problem, because they aren't advocating for that.

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