tailcalled comments on How could one (and should one) convert someone from pseudoscience? - Less Wrong

10 Post author: Vilx- 05 October 2015 11:53AM

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Comment author: Lumifer 07 October 2015 06:23:03PM *  1 point [-]

Instead, in helpless view, you focus on things like: International mainstream consensus.

Hold on. I thought the helpless view was for the "dumb masses". They are certainly not able to figure out what the "international mainstream consensus" is. Hell, even I have no idea what it is (or even what it means).

A simple example: Western democracy. What's the "international mainstream consensus"? Assuming it exists, I would guess it says that the Western-style democracy needs a strong guiding hand lest it devolves into degeneracy and amoral chaos. And hey, if you ask the experts in your outgroup (!) they probably wouldn't be great fans of the Western democracies, that's why they are in the outgroup to start with.

I have a feeling you want the helpless view to cherry-pick the "right" advice from the confusing mess of the "international consensus" and various experts and government recommendations. I don't see how this can work well.

in the current world the helpless view tells you not to believe conspiracy theories.

Heh. You know the definitions of a cult and a religion? A cult is a small unsuccessful religion. A religion is a large successful cult.

In exactly the same way what gets labeled a "conspiracy theory" is already a rejected view. If the mainstream believes in a conspiracy theory, it's not called a "conspiracy theory", it's called a deep and insightful analysis. If you were to live in a culture where Holocaust denial was mainstream, it wouldn't be called a conspiracy theory, it would be called "what all right-minded people believe".

For what purpose are you separating the people into elite and masses?

For the purpose of promoting/recommending either the independent view or the helpless view.

Comment author: tailcalled 07 October 2015 07:32:20PM 0 points [-]

By the way, you asked for a helpless-view deconversion. TomSka just posted one, so...