Marlon comments on Nature publishes an article about alternative therapy - Less Wrong

1 Post author: BiasedBayes 19 October 2015 05:07PM

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Comment author: imuli 19 October 2015 06:08:49PM 3 points [-]

The article isn't so much about Reiki as about intentionally utilizing the placebo effect in medicine. And that there is some evidence that, for the group of people that currently believe (medicine x) is effective, the placebo effect of fake (medicine x) may be stronger than that of fake (medicine y) and (medicine x) has fewer medically significant side effects than (medicine y).

Comment author: Marlon 19 October 2015 09:10:23PM 2 points [-]

Placebo doesn't affect objective outcomes anyway.

See Orac for a bitter "discussion" about this article. http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/10/15/in-the-pages-of-nature-a-full-throated-defense-of-integrating-quackery-into-medicine/

Comment author: CellBioGuy 20 October 2015 02:51:11AM *  3 points [-]

Placebo doesn't affect objective outcomes anyway.

Elaborate? I'm pretty sure that's not correct, at the very least when it comes to pain, immune system things, autonomic stuff, and possibly some musculoskeletal stuff.

Comment author: 9eB1 20 October 2015 07:35:30AM 3 points [-]

I first read that idea from the Science-based Medicine blog. Here's an example:

We did not find that placebo interventions have important clinical effects in general. However, in certain settings placebo interventions can influence patient-reported outcomes, especially pain and nausea, though it is difficult to distinguish patient-reported effects of placebo from biased reporting. The effect on pain varied, even among trials with low risk of bias, from negligible to clinically important. Variations in the effect of placebo were partly explained by variations in how trials were conducted and how patients were informed.

Let’s break this down a bit. First, they found that when you look at any objective or clinically important outcome – the kinds of things that would indicate a real biological effect – there is no discernible placebo effect. There is no mind-over-matter self healing that can be attributed to the placebo effect.

What the authors found is also most compatible with the hypothesis that placebo effects, as measured in clinical trials, are mostly due to bias. Specifically, significant placebo effects were found only for subjectively reported symptoms. Further, the size of this effect varied widely among trials.

Comment author: Marlon 01 November 2015 05:21:10PM 0 points [-]

Only few people are interested in studying placebos. However, there are a few papers (Gotzsche is one of the few). - A review - An update to the review, for reproducibility

Pain (or nausea) isn't an objective outcome anyway.