brazil84 comments on New year's resolutions: Things worth considering for next year - Less Wrong

5 Post author: Elo 07 December 2015 12:09AM

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Comment author: brazil84 09 December 2015 08:23:17AM 0 points [-]

http://www.psych.nyu.edu/gollwitzer/09_Gollwitzer_Sheeran_Seifert_Michalski_When_Intentions_.pdf

Umm, that article completely supports my position:

When other people take notice of one’s identity-relevant behavioral intentions, one’s performance of the intended behaviors is compromised. This effect occurs both when the intentions are experimenter supplied and when they are self-generated, and is observed in both immediate performance and performance measured over a period of 1 week.

If this is the only evidence you have -- besides your own logic and common sense -- then you may want to rethink your position.

Comment author: Elo 09 December 2015 08:57:55AM 0 points [-]

Like I said:

Given that the effect is limited to committed individuals—those who are most eager to reach their identity goals

Future research might address this question

Future research is needed to solve this question. This means that future research is needed to solve the question. Until then; it seems that we can't resolve this without the future research. I hold a position that is built off of your position as a foundation, using the same sources (and their conclusions), and some reasoning from first principles based on comments in the article.

Comment author: brazil84 09 December 2015 09:11:15AM 0 points [-]

Future research is needed to solve this question.

Exactly what question?

Comment author: Elo 09 December 2015 11:01:18PM *  0 points [-]

Given that the effect is limited to committed individuals—those who are most eager to reach their identity goals—an important question is how these individuals might try to escape this effect.

and

Given that:
sometimes goal sharing will be bad
sometimes goal sharing will be good

is goal sharing mostly good or mostly bad?

Comment author: brazil84 10 December 2015 12:11:18AM 0 points [-]

is goal sharing mostly good or mostly bad?

So this is the question which requires "future research" according to you?

Comment author: Elo 10 December 2015 03:29:23AM 0 points [-]

the question which requires "future research"

is a line from the conclusion of that paper.

I suspect the "mostly good or mostly bad?" will come down to subjective experience. So that's a pretty ordinary question to be trying to obtain future research for. In which case - the important question is - How might we make (or ensure) goal sharing (is) mostly good and mostly not bad? (or always good)

Comment author: brazil84 10 December 2015 08:30:24AM *  0 points [-]

is a line from the conclusion of that paper.

Umm, does that mean "yes" or "no"?

Please just state the question which requires "future research" so that I can understand what you are saying.

Comment author: Elo 10 December 2015 10:07:05AM 0 points [-]

(as in bold above) How might we make (or ensure) goal sharing (is) mostly good and mostly not bad?

Comment author: brazil84 10 December 2015 03:41:45PM 0 points [-]

as in bold above) How might we make (or ensure) goal sharing (is) mostly good and mostly not bad?

Ok, but that's a different issue. My position is that generally speaking, goal-sharing is counterproductive. Your position is that generally speaking, goal sharing is beneficial and productive. The evidence supports my position. You have offered no evidence to support your position and instead you have attempted to change the subject.

Comment author: Elo 10 December 2015 09:35:41PM -2 points [-]

I'm gonna tap out of this. I would suggest re-reading that evidence. Especially that paper and the conclusion of that paper where it doesn't actually say that.

It says things like this:

Other people’s taking notice of one’s identity-relevant intentions apparently engenders a premature sense of completeness regarding the identity goal.

An identity-relevant intention is potentially different to a goal or a plan. To make the most use of this research it would be wise to identify the difference and make use of the right mechanisms.

Good luck with your future in the goal-space.

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