= 27d567bc2d48d9f40e9ccc20ea370b15)
Usul comments on Your transhuman copy is of questionable value to your meat self. - Less Wrong
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
= 783df68a0f980790206b9ea87794c5b6)
Loading…= b715d02e85f7b3b4ae65ca3d3e450868)
Subscribe to RSS Feed
Powered by Reddit
= f037147d6e6c911a85753b9abdedda8d)
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
Comments (140)
Can you explain how you know that you're the meat space one? If every observation you make is made by the other one, and both are conscious, how do you know you're not a sim? This is a purely epistemic question.
I'm perfectly happy saying " if I am meat, then fuck sim-me, and if I am sim, fuck meat me" (assuming selfishness). But if you don't know which one you are, you need to act to benefit both, because you might be both.
On the other hand, if you see the other one, there's no problem fighting it, because the one you're fighting is surely not you. (But even so, if you expect them to do the same as you, then you're in a perfect prisoner dilemma and should cooperate.)
On the other hand, I think that if I clone myself, then do stuff my clone doesn't do, I'd still be less worried about dying than if I had no clone. I model that as "when you die, some memories are wiped and you live again". If you concede that wiping a couple days of memory doesn't destroy the person, then I think that's enough for me. Probably not you, though. What's the specific argument in that case?
"I model that as "when you die, some memories are wiped and you live again". If you concede that wiping a couple days of memory doesn't destroy the person, then I think that's enough for me. Probably not you, though. What's the specific argument in that case?"
I think I must have missed this part before. Where I differ is in the idea that a copy is "me" living again, I don't accept that it is, for the reasons previously written. Whether or not a being with a me-identical starting state lives on after I die might be the tiniest of solaces, like a child or a well-respected body of work, but in no way is it "me" living on in any meaningful way that I recognize. I get the exact opposite take on this, but I agree even with a stronger form of your statement to say that "ALL memories are wiped and you live again" (my conditions would require this to read "you continue to live") is marginally more desirable than "you die and that's it". Funny about that.
So continuity of consciousness can exist outside of memories? How so? Why is memory-wiped you different than any random memory-wiped person? How can physical continuity do that?
I see factual memory as a highly changeable data set that has very little to do with "self". As I understand it (not an expert in neuroscience or psychiatry, but experience working with neurologically impaired people) the sort of brain injuries which produce amnesia are quite distinct from those that produce changes in personality, as reported by significant others, and vice versa. In other words, you can lose the memories of "where you came from" and still be recognized as very much the same person by those who knew you, while you can become a very different person in terms of disposition, altered emotional response to identical stimuli relative to pre-injury status, etc (I'm less clear on what constitutes "personality", but it seems to be more in line with people's intuitive concept of "self") with fully intact memories. The idea of a memory wipe and continued existence is certainly a "little death" to my thinking, but marginally preferable to actual death. My idea of consciousness is one of passive reception. The same "I", or maybe "IT" is better, is there post memory wipe.
If memory is crucial to pattern identity then which has the greater claim to identity: The amnesiac police officer, or his 20 years of dashcam footage and activity logs?
Yes or no, will those who knew them be able to pick them out blind out of a group going only on text-based communication? If not, what do you mean by recognize? (If yes, I'll be surprised and will need to reevaluate this.)
The officer can't work if they're completely amnesiac. They can't do much of anything, in fact.
As to your main point: it's possible that personality changes remain after memory loss, but those personalities are themself caused by experiences and memories. I suppose I was assuming that memory wiped would wash away any recognizable personality. I still do. The kinds of amnesia you're referring to presumably leave traces of the memory somewhere in the brain, which then affects the brain's outputs. Unless we can access the brain directly and wipe it ourself, we can't guarantee everything was forgotten, and it probably does linger on in the subconscious; so that's not the same as an actual memory wipe.
I believe there is a functional definition of amnesia, loss of factual memory, life skills remain intact. I guess I would call what you are calling a memory wipe a "brain wipe". I guess I'd call what you are calling memory "total brain content". If a brain is wiped of all content in the forest is Usul's idea of consciousness spared? No idea. Total brain reboot? I'd say yes and call that good as dead I think.
I would say probably yes to the text only question. Again, loss of factual memory. But I don't rate that as a reliable or valid test in this context.