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gjm comments on Symbolic Gestures – Salutes For Effective Altruists To Identify Each Other - Less Wrong
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I am trying, and failing, to think of any possible situation in which I would want to use one of these gestures.
If you don't know the person you're facing is another EA, the likely outcome is that you make a weird gesture and the other party is offended or confused, thinks you're creepy and weird, and avoids interacting with you in the future. Extra bonus points if they ask why you just did that weird thing, you explain it's an identity symbol for effective altruists, and now they think effective altruism is a sinister cult with weird hand gestures.
If you do know the person you're facing is another EA, why do you need a special gesture to identify you both as such?
Maybe it might be used in a situation other than one-to-one interaction like, er, that Nazi salute? But it's not like EA rallies are particularly common, and if they were you'd need this gesture to be known by everyone there, which ... doesn't seem likely to happen.
What other instances are there of this kind of gesture being used? You get them sometimes in secret societies like the Freemasons with their special handshakes, or maybe the early Christians supposedly scratching fish symbols in the dirt. But EA isn't a secret society nor (so far as I know) does it aspire to be one; effective altruists aren't persecuted and have no need to hide, and the available evidence suggests that openness about generous giving helps to encourage others to give more.
What am I missing? When would anyone use this and why? I think I need some concrete examples. The OP says things like "for various purposes" (what purposes?) and "to help us identify each other" (in what situations?) and "for the positive psychological effects" (of doing what, exactly?). I just don't get it.
Well, I was hoping that people could be creative in coming up with uses, but I suppose I can offer a few more ideas.
For instance, maybe in the business world, you might not want to be so overt about being an Effective Altruist because you fear your generosity being taken advantage of, so you might use a subtle variant of these gestures to signal to other Effective Altruists who you are, without giving it away to more egoistic types.
Alternatively, it could be used to display your affiliation in such a way that signals to people in, say, an audience during a speech or lecture, where you're coming from. Again, this can be overt, or covert depending on circumstances.
Furthermore, if this is a one on one "conversation", the response could be useful for telling you how overt or covert you should be in the environment. Say for instance, you display a subtle "Dark" gesture to someone you suspect to be an Effective Altruist in an environment that may otherwise be hostile to Effective Altruism (like say, a financial company). Depending on their response, you can gauge how open you should be in the future. They might for instance, give you a very covert sign in return, which may signal that the environment is hostile. Alternatively, they may signal back with the "Light" gesture, indicating that they themselves are able to be open in this environment safely.
While it is true that most of us want to be open as effective altruists, I suspect that there is a significant number of people who while sympathetic to our causes, are hesitant to openly affiliate for fear of being taken advantage of by free riders and egoists. These gestures would be most useful for those people.
Sorry, still not seeing it. Why are you trying to give these cryptic signals to other EAs at work? Is the idea that EAs will start cutting one another specially favourable deals and giving preference to one another for good jobs? That seems likely to be hugely counterproductive, because as soon as such things get suspected it's going to be bad for the whole EA movement.
If you're overtly signalling affiliation while making a political speech or something, why not just do it by talking about effective altruism? If it's a speech in which it doesn't make any sense to do so, then what the hell are you doing signalling affiliation in the first place? Again, this is the kind of thing that gives a movement a bad name. (Ditto, even more so, if it's covert.)
OK, so I am, let's say, an investor considering putting some money into a hedge fund. I go to visit their offices.The fund manager or one of his colleagues greets me by putting his hand behind his back and giving a thumbs-up gesture. Are you suggesting this is a subtle gesture that won't make anyone suspicious?
Again, maybe I'm just missing something. But every time I actually try to imagine a concrete situation in which this sort of gesture might be useful, I can't do it.