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Lumifer comments on The map of quantum (big world) immortality - Less Wrong

2 Post author: turchin 25 January 2016 10:21AM

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Comment author: Lumifer 28 January 2016 03:54:46PM 1 point [-]

I am a bit confused. If we are living in a Quantum Immortality world, why don't we see any 1000-year-old people around?

Comment author: ESRogs 20 September 2017 11:55:57AM 1 point [-]

QI doesn't imply that you see any other immortal people. It just suggests that through an increasingly unlikely series of coincidences, the first-person perspective perpetually persists.

Comment author: turchin 28 January 2016 10:26:05PM 1 point [-]

Only one observer is immortal in one world, you can'y meet others.

It is the same like in lottery with one prize. If you win, other has lost. But Anthropic principle metaphor is more correct. You don't meet other immortals, the same way as Fermi paradox work and we don't meet other habitable planets. Because winning is so improbable that we could find ourselves on habitable planet only because observation selection.

Comment author: qmotus 28 January 2016 04:09:42PM 1 point [-]

Because it's incredibly unlikely for anyone to live to be a thousand years old and equally unlikely whether MWI is true or not. There are worlds where we see maybe one such person, of course, but this just isn't one of them (unless you think that, say, Stephen Hawking keeping on living against all odds is evidence of QI).

Comment author: Lumifer 28 January 2016 04:16:32PM *  0 points [-]

Because it's incredibly unlikely for anyone to live to be a thousand years old and equally unlikely whether MWI is true or not.

Under QI, doesn't everyone live to be a thousand years old and more?

There are worlds where we see maybe one such person, of course, but this just isn't one of them

Human longevity looks to have a pretty hard cut-off at the moment. We don't see anyone 150 years old, too.

Comment author: qmotus 28 January 2016 05:03:35PM 0 points [-]

Under QI, doesn't everyone live to be a thousand years old and more?

Think of it like this: MWI makes the exact same predictions regarding observations as the Copenhagen interpretation, it's just that observations that are incredibly unlikely to ever happen in CI happen in a very small portion of all existing worlds in MWI. QI does not change this, which means that everybody does live to 1000 in a small minority of worlds, but in most worlds they die in their 120s at the latest. Therefore you're very unlikely to see anyone else besides yourself living miraculously long.

Comment author: Lumifer 28 January 2016 05:12:28PM *  0 points [-]

MWI makes the exact same predictions regarding observations as the Copenhagen interpretation

I don't believe the Copenhagen interpretation expects me to live forever.

Out of curiosity, have there been attempts to estimate the "branching speed" under MWI? How many worlds with slightly different copies of me will exist in 1 second?

Comment author: qmotus 28 January 2016 05:24:49PM 0 points [-]

I don't believe the Copenhagen interpretation expects me to live forever.

It does not. There's the difference. But if someone looks at you from the outside, the probability with which they will see you living or dying is not affected by quantum interpretations.

As to your second question, I don't know. QI as it is presented here is based on a pretty simplistic version of MWI, I suppose, one which may have flaws. I hope that's the cased, actually.

Comment author: CAE_Jones 28 January 2016 04:33:37PM 0 points [-]

I understand QI as related to the Anthropic Principal. The point is that you will tend to find yourself observing things, which implies that there is an effectively immortal version of you somewhere in probability space. It doesn't require that any Quantum Immortals coexist in the same world.

Of course, we'd be far more likely to continue observing things in a world where immortality is already available than in one where it is not, but since we're not in that world, it doesn't seem too outlandish to give a little weight to the idea that the absence of Quantum Immortals is a precondition to being a Quantum Immortal. I have no idea how that makes sense, though. One could construct fantastic hypotheticals about eventually encountering an alien race intent on wiping out immortals, or some Highlander-esque shenanigans, but more likely is that immortality is just hard and not that many people can win the QI lottery in a single world. (Or even that we happen to be living at the time when immortality is attainable.)

Incidentally (or frustratingly), this gets us back into "it's all part of the divine plan" territory. Why do you go through problem X? Because if you didn't, you would eventually die forever.

I am now curious as to whether or not there are books that combine Quantum Immortality with religious eschitology[sic]. Just wait for the Quantum Messiah to invent a world-hopping ability to rescue everyone who has ever lived from their own personal eternity (which is probably a Quantum Hell by that point), and bring them to Quantum Heaven.

(I was not thinking Quantum Jesus would be an AI, but sure; why not? Now we have the Universal Reconciliation version of straw Singularitarianism.)

Comment author: Lumifer 28 January 2016 04:40:07PM 0 points [-]

I understand QI as related to the Anthropic Principal. The point is that you will tend to find yourself observing things, which implies that there is an effectively immortal version of you somewhere in probability space.

The Anthropic Principle does not imply immortality. It basically says that you will not observe a world in which you don't exist, but it says nothing about you continuing to exist forever in time.