CronoDAS comments on A Medical Mystery: Thyroid Hormones, Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia - Less Wrong

23 Post author: johnlawrenceaspden 14 February 2016 01:14PM

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Comment author: johnlawrenceaspden 03 March 2016 03:03:50PM 1 point [-]

Absolutely, a famous example is Queen Victoria's mutation that caused haemophilia in some of her male descendants. The queen really does seem to have been the mutant, and it was just a rotten bit of luck!

What needs explanation is how a harmful random mutation can spread to a significant proportion of the population. One way that can happen is if it's actually also a defence against something, and another is if the heterozygote version is good, but the homozygote is harmful.

With a large fitness advantage, mutations can spread quickly! Consider a lightning plague like the black death. It wiped out a third of the population of Europe in a couple of years, and then simmered and flared for centuries. A 'harmful' gene that defended against that would have had a whale of a time, and you'd expect to see it in all Europeans.

But if it's really harmful, you'd expect that over the last 600 years, better defenses might have evolved, and the previous defence might start evolving back out.

About 500 years ago, all the old world plagues were introduced to the Americas at once, and they literally decimated the native population. I don't know if there are any 'pureblood' native americans left, but if there are, their genes should be a mass of defensive scars.

Comment author: CronoDAS 03 March 2016 03:20:12PM 1 point [-]

"Literally decimated" would have reduced the population by 10%. Some Native American groups were hit much harder than that. (I think the "mound builders" in what is now the southeastern US may have actually disappeared completely.)

Comment author: johnlawrenceaspden 03 March 2016 03:33:04PM *  0 points [-]

Accepted. I have managed to use decimated in the wrong way. Sorry.

Comment author: CronoDAS 03 March 2016 11:12:50PM 1 point [-]

Minus the "literally", though, the word "decimated" in current English uses would include much more severe population declines. I'm just being unnecessarily pedantic.

Comment author: johnlawrenceaspden 03 March 2016 11:31:25PM 0 points [-]

Spectacular pedantry is sort of where I'm coming from here, though. And actually literally can be used metaphorically too, and has been for some centuries. I'm confidently expecting this to be the most controversial assertion in this entire discussion, so you can go look for your own references. [Openly trolling now]

Comment author: johnlawrenceaspden 03 March 2016 03:35:56PM 0 points [-]

In fact, how did any of them live through that? Did the vikings take some diseases and some genes over with them early doors?

Comment author: Lumifer 03 March 2016 04:13:13PM 1 point [-]

Did the Vikings ever get out of Newfoundland? Is there any evidence they made it to the mainland?

Comment author: g_pepper 03 March 2016 04:44:19PM 0 points [-]

According to Wikipedia, yes, the Norse made it to continental North America in pre-Columbian times and made multiple voyages there to obtain natural resources (primarily fur and timber), but did not establish any permanent colonies (perhaps due to hostile relations with the native Americans (which the Norse called the Skrælings)).

Comment author: Lumifer 03 March 2016 04:55:02PM 0 points [-]

According to Wikipedia, yes, the Norse made it to continental North America in pre-Columbian times

I asked about the mainland. The Vikings made it to Newfoundland, certainly, but Newfoundland is an island.

Comment author: g_pepper 03 March 2016 05:07:07PM 0 points [-]

I asked about the mainland

The Wikipedia article mentions that a Norwegian coin from King Olaf Kyrre's reign (1067–1093) was allegedly found in a Native American archaeological site in the state of Maine, but does not mention any definitive evidence that the Norse made it to the mainland.

Comment author: Lumifer 03 March 2016 05:28:16PM 0 points [-]

Yes, I know. That's why I asked :-/

Comment author: johnlawrenceaspden 03 March 2016 04:24:20PM 0 points [-]

I have no clue. Is there a vikingologist in the house?