Lumifer comments on A Medical Mystery: Thyroid Hormones, Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia - Less Wrong
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Comments (159)
What's the difference?
Then as evidence I refer you to the site http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/, which is largely devoted to middle-aged women complaining about displaying terrible symptoms, and being ignored.
I predict that you will be tempted to ignore them. They are certainly doing a good job of looking like lunatics. It is a problem with what I am increasingly tempted to think of as 'my tribe'.
If they're too mad for you, then try http://www.tiredthyroid.com/, where one brave and clever lady, who does not look mad at all to me, has comprehensively debunked the medical theory and treatment of hypothyroidism proper.
I have not read the website, but I have recently read the book 'Tired Thyroid'. She has done a wonderful job and gone much deeper into the literature than I have. She debunks not only conventional medicine but all the lunatic alternative treatments too. She provides references from the literature for everything she says.
The book is closely argued. It is heartbreaking. Its arguments affect the lives of millions. Tell me why she is ignored.
The most open-minded thing I've read from "medical science" recently is called 'Dissatisfaction with thyroxine therapy — could the patients be right?' by John Walsh. This man is being ludicrously brave by sticking his neck out that far.
'Could the patients be right?'. About their own symptoms.
This is not science. This is some pathetic parody of science, where idiots in white coats claim the glory of physics despite not being able to reason their way out of paper bags. I call bullshit.
The track record of people who claim things like that is not good.
Go one meta level up and consider the likelihood of all the endocrinologists being knaves or fools...
A recent Yvain post might be relevant.
Happens all the time X-) but still does not imply that "comprehensive debunkings" are correct. Reverse stupidity, y'know...
Read Yvain's post. As always brilliant.
I can see the reason for Attitude 2, but I think you're only allowed to use it if your arrogant airy dismissal then results in a drill-down to find the real problem, which real problem then leads to an intervention that actually helps and clears up the original difficulty.
One reason I think I'm a loony is that Yvain liked my first post, and sent me some clever questions which prompted the metamorphosis into the second post.
So I sent him the second post wondering what he thought, and now he's stopped talking to me. Good evidence that I'm unhinged.
My attorney thinks I'm sane (and he should know). And he thinks I'm wrong (and he should know). But he can't tell me why. (and he should be able to).
Absolutely agree, again. I must be wrong, for reasons I cannot see.
But the fact that this idea is obvious (to a child!), widely believed, often believed by empirically-minded doctors, causes striking-offs of those doctors brave enough to act on the belief and yet has no obvious refutation in the literature or in any public place I can find, is itself a scandal.
Can you imagine how easy it would be for a man to find the reason that his clever method of squaring the circle must be wrong? Or that his perpetual motion machine doesn't work? Or that he can't communicate faster than light?
I might not be able to understand the refutation, if it exists. I accept that. I don't have the knowledge. But it should be in a public place, and someone should be pointing me at it while calling me a moron.
And God help us all if I'm actually right.
You're at LW which is not inhabited by a large number of doctors or biomedical PhDs :-) I don't know the right places for you to go to, but watering holes for medical geeks must exist. LW is not it, though.
Or you can start digging through PubMed X-)
I've been digging through it for the last three months. And I can't find what I'm looking for. That's why I'm asking for help. The author of Tired Thyroid has obviously been digging through it for years.
What are you looking for?
Evidence against my idea! Firstly I was looking for reasons to believe that the replacement of clinical diagnosis by the TSH test in the early 70s was done carefully.
Now I'm looking for any attempt that has ever been made to refute the claims of Broda Barnes, or to investigate why there should be 'insulin resistance', but not resistance to other hormones.
As far as I can tell, there aren't any. They've just assumed their stupid TSH test to be gospel, despite massive patient complaints, and ignored a seventy year old tradition of treatment that appears to work really well, and that seems to be working really well on me.