Glen comments on Rationality Quotes Thread February 2016 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: elharo 02 February 2016 06:17PM

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Comment author: Glen 08 February 2016 08:31:38PM 5 points [-]

That's not even true, though. If you are kidnapped and then tortured, you are not remotely in control of your own happiness, just to take the most obvious extreme answer. Even for more mundane situations, people can be trapped in terrible situations, where cruel people have power over them. If you are working at a minimum wage job with bills coming seemingly every day and which you only overcome by working 18 hour days before collapsing exhausted and doing it all again in the morning, there is very little you can do about it. Now if one of the supervisors at one of your jobs is a petty tyrant who makes you miserable, what choice do you have that would increase your happiness?

I see what the quote is trying to say, as a call to action to change your own life, but it simply isn't true. It also fails the false wisdom reversal test, in that a quote saying "You have no true control over your own happiness; therefore, you must accept your lot in life with all the grace you can muster" sounds just as deep and helpful.

Comment author: 27chaos 09 February 2016 12:10:22AM 3 points [-]

I am somewhat uncertain about whether people who are kidnapped and tortured are in control of their happiness. I know there are at least a few people who've been in those situations or similar ones, like the Holocaust, who report that they retained some control over their own thoughts and perspective and this was a source of comfort and strength to them. I think it is possible that people who are tortured are in control of their own happiness, but they generally tend to make the choice to break.

One example that comes up in discussions on this is medical depression, which I have. From introspection, it feels like it is both true that I have control over my happiness and that it is not true that I have control over my happiness. I can recall occasions on which I have consciously chosen to lie in bed and be unhappy, and I can also recall occasions on which I have consciously chosen to uproot myself from misery. However, there are also occasions where I've attempted to do this but failed. I think the answer to our dilemma lies in compatibilism: we are in control in the sense that what happens inside our heads matters, but not in the sense that we can transcend our physical limitations and become omnipotent.

Also, it was listed as an instrumental rationality quote.

All of that said, I downvoted the original comment. While I think it is a defensible point of view, I want rationality quotes that are insightful and compelling, not ones that regurgitate conventional wisdom which some people will automatically believe while others will not.

Comment author: Clarity 09 February 2016 09:44:06AM *  0 points [-]

That's not even true, though.

It's not true, epistemically, but is true instrumentally.

I explicitly wrote it was an instrumental rationality quote, not epistemically rational because of the kind of literalism you've so gratuitously supplied :)

Comment author: bbleeker 10 February 2016 09:12:15AM *  4 points [-]

I don't think it's true, period. It's true that "No one is in control of your happiness but you", but it does not follow that "therefore, you have the power to change anything about yourself or your life that you want to change". And for it to be true instrumentally, it should give us a tip about how to control your happiness.

Comment author: Clarity 13 February 2016 04:56:37AM 0 points [-]

The tip is implicit.

"Fantasy abandoned by reason produces impossible monsters: united with her, she is the mother of the arts and the origin of their marvels."

-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sleep_of_Reason_Produces_Monsters

That one makes the same or similar claim, but explicitly. Do you get it now?

Comment author: bbleeker 13 February 2016 09:31:07AM 1 point [-]

Yeah, that one is better. :-)