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DanArmak comments on Is Spirituality Irrational? - Less Wrong
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These are all good and useful fields of study, but crucially, they're using the word "consciousness" to mean something different from what was under discussion here, which I did my best to point out.
This subthread started with the g_pepper saying:
Clearly, whatever is being talked about here doesn't belong to one of the fields of study you mentioned. In none of those fields does the statement that "we can't [ever] empirically test for consciousness" make sense - obviously we can test if a person (or other system) is forming memories, is able to make verbal reports, has blind spots, etc. We don't need to rely on people's own impressions of being conscious, either.
This is "consciousness" in the vernacular (and philosophical) sense, closely related to sentience: the possession of a subjective experience. It's a confused concept, which doesn't admit empirical study, just like souls or dualist free will don't. But people's belief in, and beliefs about, the concept can be studied.
I never said science can't do something.
The tone of your reply seems aggressive. What did I say that you found offensive?
And yet I know that I possess a subjective experience, and I suspect that you do to. Just because something does not currently lend itself to quantitative scientific study does not mean that it is not real.
ETA:
Note that much of the discussion of free will in this comments section has had nothing to do with souls or dualist free will; e.g. compatibilism has nothing to do with souls or dualism.
(Edited) That's true, but it doesn't necessarily contradict what I said. Subjective experience is real - we all have it. Being real, it can be studied. But I strongly expect that whatever the study produces won't e.g. let us tell if a non-human is conscious (has subjective experience) except by arbitrary definitions that ultimately rely on being-similar-to-humans.
That's true, which is why I specified dualist free will.
In general there is a study of consciousness, but there is not a study of some specific aspects, theories and definitions.
Subjective experience can be studied up to a point, eg synaesthesia. The studies tend to assume that subjects have experiences an are report them accurately....n other words, the assume the non zombie hood of the subjects. Zombiehood isn't testable, but is a specific theory of consciousness, not "consciousness".
In other words: there is study of some definitions (or referents) of "consciousness", and not of others, and the one that was used originally in this thread isn't studied.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'in general' here, but I think that might be semantics and not any concrete difference of opinion between us.