Comment author:Anon10
31 January 2008 06:49:55PM
1 point
[-]

(same anon from above who asked about the context of the 400/500 problem being an issue)

In response to GreedyAlgorithm who said:

Certainly finding out all of the facts that you can is good. But rationality has to
work no matter how many facts you have. If the only thing you know is that you have
two options:
1. Save 400 lives, with certainty
2. Save 500 lives, 90% probability; save no lives, 10% probability.
then you should take option 2. Yes, more information might change your choice.
Obviously. And not interesting. The point is that given this information, rationality
picks choice 2.

While I agree with your constrained view of the problem and its analysis, you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. In such a freed-from-context view, this is (to use your own words) "not interesting". It's like asserting that "4.5 is greater than 4" and that since we wish to pick the greater number, the rationalist picks 4.5. True as far as it goes, but trivial and of no consequence.

Eliezer brought in the idea of something more valuable than your own life, say that of your child. By stepping outside the cold, hard calculus of mere arithmetic comparisons he made a good point (we are still discussing it), but he opened the door for me to do the same. I see your child, and raise you "all of humanity".

Either we are discussing a tautological, uninteresting, degenerate case which reduces down to "4.5 is greater than 4, so to be rational you should always pick 4.5" (which, I agree with, but is rather pointless) or we are discussing the more interesting question of the intersection between morality and rationality. In that case, I assert bringing "extra" conditions into the problem matters very much.

If "rationality has to work no matter how many facts you have" [Greedy's words] (which I agree with) then you must grant me that it should provide consistent results. To make the problem "interesting" Eliezer brought in the "extra" personal stake of a loved family member, and came to his rationalist conclusion, pointing out why you'd want to "take a chance" given that you don't know if your daughter is in the certain group or might be saved as one of the "chance" group. I merely followed his example. His daughter may still be in the certain group or not (same situation) but I've just added everyone else's daughter into the pot. I don't see how these are fundamentally different cases, so rationality should produce the same answer, no?

## Comments (76)

Old(same anon from above who asked about the context of the 400/500 problem being an issue)

In response to GreedyAlgorithm who said:

Certainly finding out all of the facts that you can is good. But rationality has to work no matter how many facts you have. If the only thing you know is that you have two options: 1. Save 400 lives, with certainty 2. Save 500 lives, 90% probability; save no lives, 10% probability. then you should take option 2. Yes, more information might change your choice. Obviously. And not interesting. The point is that given this information, rationality picks choice 2.

While I agree with your constrained view of the problem and its analysis, you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. In such a freed-from-context view, this is (to use your own words) "not interesting". It's like asserting that "4.5 is greater than 4" and that since we wish to pick the greater number, the rationalist picks 4.5. True as far as it goes, but trivial and of no consequence.

Eliezer brought in the idea of something more valuable than your own life, say that of your child. By stepping outside the cold, hard calculus of mere arithmetic comparisons he made a good point (we are still discussing it), but he opened the door for me to do the same. I see your child, and raise you "all of humanity".

Either we are discussing a tautological, uninteresting, degenerate case which reduces down to "4.5 is greater than 4, so to be rational you should always pick 4.5" (which, I agree with, but is rather pointless) or we are discussing the more interesting question of the intersection between morality and rationality. In that case, I assert bringing "extra" conditions into the problem matters very much.

If "rationality has to work no matter how many facts you have" [Greedy's words] (which I agree with) then you must grant me that it should provide consistent results. To make the problem "interesting" Eliezer brought in the "extra" personal stake of a loved family member, and came to his rationalist conclusion, pointing out why you'd want to "take a chance" given that you don't know if your daughter is in the certain group or might be saved as one of the "chance" group. I merely followed his example. His daughter may still be in the certain group or not (same situation) but I've just added everyone else's daughter into the pot. I don't see how these are fundamentally different cases, so rationality should produce the same answer, no?