UnclGhost comments on The Parable of the Dagger - Less Wrong

53 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 01 February 2008 08:53PM

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Comment author: DanielLC 04 June 2013 03:12:17AM 1 point [-]

The distinction the author draws is that the second box in the earlier problem really does have to be true or false, since "it is a historic statement about the physical world"

If one of the boxes says that exactly one of them was written by Alice, and you know from another source that Alice always tells the truth, Bob always lies, and both boxes were inscribed by one of them, and Alice and Bob never say anything self-referential, then this is correct.

If it says that one of the boxes was labelled by someone who always tells the truth, then it's not just talking about the person who labelled that box. It's also talking about every aspect of reality that they've ever referenced, and if they were the one to write that inscription, then it's self-referential.

Comment author: UnclGhost 17 July 2013 12:21:37AM 0 points [-]

Good point--in the original wording, it says it was inscribed by "Bellini", who is established earlier to always tell the truth.

Comment author: DanielLC 17 July 2013 04:21:42AM 0 points [-]

In which case, if Bellini ever references anything self-referential, the idea that he always tells the truth is not a statement about the physical world. It's likely that the origin of the paradox is that the claim that Bellini always tells the truth and the rest of the scenario are contradictory.

Comment author: mamert 13 April 2016 10:33:56AM 0 points [-]

I notice we're somehow not debating what Bellini always telling the truth means for the truth value of the inscribed text which may have had no meaning to him?