FriendlyBuffalo comments on The Thyroid Madness: Two Apparently Contradictory Studies. Proof? - Less Wrong

7 Post author: johnlawrenceaspden 10 April 2016 08:21PM

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Comment author: CasioTheSane 29 April 2016 02:07:31AM *  1 point [-]

You wouldn't need to invoke the idea of 'hormone resistance' because TSH and T4 tests normally used to diagnose hypothyroidism don't measure the active hormone - T3. T4 is just a prohormone with very little direct activity on metabolic rate.

In primates, metabolism is regulated primarily in the liver by T4->T3 conversion, so if this is inhibited for any reason it will suppress metabolism without showing up on those tests. Low calorie intake, and poor nutrition are known to cause this (e.g. Euthyroid sick syndrome). In cases of poor liver conversion, supplementing T4 can actually make symptoms worse, as it will further suppress metabolism by lowering the small amount of T3 production from the thyroid (via the TSH feedback loop).

I assume you have heard of Ray Peat? I personally had good luck applying his ideas to increase my energy levels, and my pulse, body temperature, and cold tolerance raised as well - without supplementing thyroid. His general idea is pretty simple- just look at what conditions and nutrients maximize T4->T3 conversion, and provide them (low stress, high nutrient diet).

Broda Barnes work is very interesting. It blows my mind that he published a paper in The Lancet showing that desiccated thyroid lowered cholesterol levels and seemed to prevent cardiovascular disease in his patients, and that it remains virtually un-discussed and uncited (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13796871).

Comment author: FriendlyBuffalo 20 May 2016 08:23:16AM 2 points [-]

The reason why Barnes' paper showing that desiccated thyroid lowering cholesterol levels and seeming to prevent cardiovascular disease isn't cited is because he was basically making his patients hyperthyroid. Lower cholesterol levels occur in hyperthyroidism.

There is a doctor I know of in California who gives his patients supra-physiological levels of T3 hormone (cytomel) to increase their metabolism, to help them lose weight, and to lower their cholesterol levels. It basically suppresses the thyroid's own production of hormone. In the short term, it works. It's brilliant. But it's crazy. We have no idea what the long-term consequences are. And since I'm pretty sure he's not running a study on it, we won't.

Comment author: CasioTheSane 25 May 2016 10:39:30PM *  1 point [-]

he was basically making his patients hyperthyroid

Why is this a reason not to reject it? He is essentially arguing that the major cause of cardiovascular disease is population-wide high rates of hypothyroidism. It would be a circular argument to dismiss that because his treatment leads to a greater than average metabolic rate. One would also need evidence of a disadvantage that outweighs the advantages. His patients seemed to be doing well, or at least he doesn't report them exhibiting any classic signs of hyperthyroidism. He was primarily adjusting dose based on body temperature to the upper end of the normal non-hyperthyroid range.

to help them lose weight

I have seen studies on thyroid supplementation as a weight loss strategy, and it causes loss of lean tissue (muscle, etc.) more than fat.