gwern comments on What is up with carbon dioxide and cognition? An offer - Less Wrong

24 Post author: paulfchristiano 23 April 2016 05:47PM

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Comment author: gwern 23 April 2016 08:50:17PM *  19 points [-]

It is odd, isn't it? The effect sizes seem ridiculous*, but there's nothing obviously wrong with that study (aside from the sample size). Cochran has blogged about oxygen before as well. To compile some of the relevant papers:

The problem for me is that while it makes sense that since we run on oxygen and the brain uses a lot of oxygen (the whole 'BOLD' thing etc), more oxygen might be better, it has the same issue as Kurzban's blood-glucose/willpower criticism: if the brain needs more oxygen than it's getting, why doesn't one simply breath a little more? While sedentary during these sorts of tasks, you have far more breathing capacity than you should need - you are able to sprint all-out without falling over of asphyxiation, after all. So there's no obvious reason there should be any lack, even more so than for glucose. And shouldn't CO2 levels closely track various aspects of weather? But as far as I know, various attempts to correlate weather and cognitive performance or mood have turned up only tiny effects. In addition, too much oxygen can be bad. So is it too little oxygen or too much nitrogen or too much carbon dioxide...?

Jessica Taylor for lending me a CO2 monitor so that I could see variability in indoor CO2 levels.

What monitor is that? You could try recording CO2 long-term, especially if it's a data logger. Opening windows is something that's easily randomized.

I did some looking and compiling of consumer-oriented devices a while ago: https://forum.quantifiedself.com/t/indoor-air-quality-monitoring-health/799/40 I was not too impressed since nothing hit the sweet spot of accurate CO2 and PPM measurement under $100. The Netatmo looked decent but there are a lot of complaints about accuracy & reliability (checking the most recent Amazon reviews, still a lot of complaints).

I've been thinking maybe I should settle for the Netatmo. I've been working on a structural equation model (SEM) integrating ~100 personal data variables to try to model my productivity (some current sample output), and it would be nice to have even noisy daily C02 variables (as long as I know how noisy and can use it as a latent variable to deal with the measurement error). Correlation-wise, I think backwards causation can be mostly ruled out, and the most obvious confound is weather, which is already in my SEM.

* taken at face value, with reasonable estimates of how much rooms differ from day to day or week to week, CO2 levels would explain a lot or maybe most of variability in IQ tests or cognitive performance!

Comment author: gwern 06 June 2016 09:38:09PM *  0 points [-]

Some followup links:

  • "Effects of CO2 and N2 partial pressures on cognitive and psychomotor performance", Fothergill et al 1991 (negative effects at 1 atmosphere; they vary CO2 levels from the normal level of 0.23mmHg to 29/47/57 mmHg, or 38k/62k/75k PPM?)
  • "Joint NASA-ESA-DARA Study. Part three: effects of chronically elevated CO2 on mental performance during 26 days of confinement", Manzey & Lorenz 1998 (requested); comparing 7000 to 12000PPM
  • Emergency and Continuous Exposure Guidance Levels for Selected Submarine Contaminants, National Research Council (2007), chapter 3 "Carbon Dioxide"; many negative mental and physical effects at extremely high CO2 concentrations >50000PPM; consistent statistically-significant effects below that tend to be harder to find but from the descriptions, they often were not using sensitive tests of higher cognitive functioning, a broad array of different measurements, and very small sample sizes; I suspect a meta-analysis grouping tasks by domain with some correction for ceiling effects might turn in a very different conclusion than their fairly sanguine conclusion that there are no cognitive impairments <40000PPM and <25000PPM is a perfectly safe limit. (Oddly enough, I came across this book on an anti-global-warming site; apparently Satish et al 2012 is really just global warming propaganda scare tactics, because the Navy has proven that CO2 is perfectly safe.) Cited for cognitive effects:

    • Brown, E.W. 1930. "The physiological effects of high concentrations of carbon dioxide". U.S. Naval Med. Bull. 28:721-934 (as cited in NRC 1996).
    • Consolazio, W.B., M.B. Fisher, N. Pace, L.J. Pecora, and A.R. Behnke. 1947. "Effects on man of high concentration of carbon dioxide in relation to various oxygen pressures during exposures as long as 72 hours". Am. J. Physiol. 151:479-503 (as cited in NRC 1996).
    • Gellhorn, E., and I. Spiesman. 1934. "Influence of variations of O2 and CO2 tension in inspired air upon hearing". Proc. Soc. Exp. Biol. Med. 32:46-47.
    • Gellhorn, E., and I. Spiesman. 1935. "Influence of hypercapnea and of variations of O2- and CO2-tension in inspired air upon hearing". Am. J. Physiol. 112:519-528 (as cited in NRC 1996)
    • Glatte, Jr., H.A., G.J. Motsay, and B.E. Welch. 1967. "Carbon Dioxide Tolerance Studies". Rep. No. SAM-TR-67-77. Aerospace Medical Division, USAF School of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks Air Force Base, San Antonio, TX (as cited in NRC 1996).
    • Menn, S.J., R.D. Sinclair, and B.E. Welch. 1970. "Effect of inspired pCO2 up to 30 mm Hg on response of normal man to exercise". J. Appl. Physiol. 28(5):663-671 (as cited in NRC 1996).
    • Radziszewski, E., L. Giacomoni, and R. Guillerm. 1988. "Effets physiologiques chez l’homme du confinement du longue duree en atmosphere enrichie en dioxyde de carbone". Pp. 19-23 in Proceedings of the Colloquium on Space and Sea [in French]. European Space Agency, Brussels, Belgium (as cited in NRC 1996).
    • Schaefer, K.E. 1961. "A concept of triple tolerance limits based on chronic carbon dioxide toxicity studies". Aeromed. Acta. 32:197-204.
    • Schneider, E.C., and D. Truesdale. 1922. "The effects on the circulation and respiration of a increase in carbon dioxide content of the blood in man". Am. J. Physiol. 63:155-175 (as cited in NRC 1996).
    • Sinclair, R.D., J.M. Clark, and B.E. Welch. 1969. "Carbon dioxide tolerance levels for space cabins". Proceedings of the Fifth Annual Conference on Atmospheric Contamination in Confined Spaces, September 16-18, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton, OH.
    • Sinclair, R.D., J.M. Clark, and B.E. Welch. 1971. "Comparison of physiological responses of normal man to exercise in air and in acute and chronic hypercapnia". Pp. 409-417 in Underwater Physiology, C.J. Lambertsen, ed. New York: Academic Press. [can download book from Libgen if Google Books link doesn't work]
    • Storm, W.F., and C.L. Giannetta. 1974. "Effects of hypercapnia and bedrest on psychomotor performance". Aerosp. Med. 45(4):431-433.
    • Sun, M., C. Sun, and Y. Yang. 1996. "Effect of low-concentration CO2 on stereoacuity and energy expenditure". Aviat. Space Environ. Med. 67(1):34-39.
    • Wamsley, J.R., E.W. Youngling, and W.F. Behm. 1969. "High fidelity simulations in the evaluation of environmental stress: Acute CO2 exposure". Aerospace Med. 40:1336-1340 (as cited in NRC 1996).
    • Yang, Y., S. Changnian, and M. Sun. 1997. "The effect of moderately increased CO2 concentration on perception of coherent motion". Aviat. Space Environ. Med. 68(3):187-19.1

    (requested the missing ones)

Comment author: gwern 06 June 2016 10:53:20PM *  0 points [-]

More:

Comment author: gwern 07 June 2016 12:08:10AM 0 points [-]

Sleep oriented studies:

  • Ayas, N.T., Brown, R., & Shea, S.A. (2000). "Hypercapnia can induce arousal from sleep in the absence of altered respiratory mechanoreception". AmericanJournal ofRespiratory andCriticalCare Medicine, 162(3 Pt 1), 1004-1008.
  • Berry, R.B., Mahutte, C.K., & Light, R.W. (1993) "Effect of hypercapnia on the arousal response to airway occlusion during sleep in normal subjects". Journal of Applied Physiology, 74(5), 2269-2275
  • Berthon-Jones, M., & Sullivan, C.E. (1984). "Ventilation and arousal responses to hypercapnia in normal sleeping humans". Journal of Applied Physiology, 57(1), 59-67
  • Frey, M. A., Sulzman, F. M., Oser, H.,& Ruyters, G. (1998). "Joint NASA-ESA-DARA study, part one: the effects of moderately elevated ambient carbon dioxide levels on human physiology and performance". Aviation, Space, and Environmental Medicine, 69(3), 282-284
  • Gundel, A., Drescher, J., & Weihrauch, M. R. (1998a). "Joint NASA-ESA-DARA Study, part three: cardiorespiratory response to elevated CO2 levels during sleep". Aviation, Space, and Environmental Medicine, 69(5), 496-500
  • Samel, A., Vejvoda,M., Wittiber, K., & Wenzel, J. (1998). "Joint NASA-ESA-DARA study. Part three: circadian rhythms and activity-rest cycle under different CO2 concentrations". Aviation, Space, and Environmental Medicine, 69(5), 501-505.
  • Laverge & Janssens 2011; 6 students over 1 month with 2-week periods of open/closed windows, comparing peaks of 1000-2500PPM to 3000-4500PPM. Some evidence for improvement.
  • Strøm-Tejsen et al 2014a; within-subject comparison of 14 students sleeping in 660PPM vs 2585PPM conditions
  • Strøm-Tejsen et al 2014b; within-subject comparison of 16 students sleeping in 835PPM vs 2395PPM conditions (as controlled by a fan with a CO2 sensor; very quiet but blinding may not've succeeded)