He tried to move people to /r/SlateStarCodex, but that didn't work. We'd want to understand why. (Some hypotheses: it wasn't actually on SSC, where people go directly; posts there don't pop up in their RSS readers; people have an aversion to comment systems with voting; people have an aversion to reddit specifically.)
I think a big explanation is that /r/SlateStarCodex was not advertised sufficiently, and people never developed the habit of visiting there. I imagine that if Scott chose to highlight great comments or self posts from /r/SlateStarCodex each week, the subreddit would grow faster, for instance.
Online communities are Schelling points. People want to be readers in the community where all the writers are, and vice versa. Force of habit keeps people visiting the same places over and over again, but if they don't feel reinforced through interesting content to read / recognition of their writing, they're liable to go elsewhere. The most likely explanation for why any online community fails, including stuff like /r/RationalistDiaspora and /r/SlateStarCodex, is that it never becomes a Schelling point. My explanation for why LW has lost traffic: there was a feedback loop involving people not being reinforced for writing and LW gradually losing its strength as a Schelling point.
Edit: also, subreddits are better suited to link sharing than original posts IMO.
I'm not sure that "writes good posts" and "would make a good moderator" are sufficiently correlated for this to work. A lot of people like Eliezer's writing but dislike his approach to moderation.
Acknowledged, but as long as the correlation is above 0, I suspect it's a better system than what reddit has, where ability to vote is based on possession of a warm body.
It also creates weird incentives, like: "I liked this post that was highly critical of our community, but I don't want the author to be a mod".
Concrete example: Holden Karnofsky's critical post was liked by many people. Holden has posted other stuff too, and his karma is 3689. That would give him about 1% of Eliezer's influence, 4% of Yvain's influence, or 39% of my influence. This doesn't sound upsetting to me and I doubt it would upset many others. If Holden was able to, say, collect mucho karma by writing highly upvoted rebuttals of every individual sequence post, then maybe he should be the new LW moderator-in-chief.
But even if you're sure this is a problem, it'd be simple to add another upvote option that increases visibility without bestowing karma. I deliberately kept my proposal simple because I didn't want to take away the fun of hashing out details from other people :) I'm in favor of giving Scott Alexander "god status" (ability to edit the karma for every person and post) until all the incentive details are worked out, and maybe even after that. In the extreme, the system I describe is simply a tool to lighten Scott's moderation load.
(This is the problem that Scott Aa points to of "this system can only improve on ordinary democracy if the trust network has some other purpose" - I worry that voting-for-comment-scores isn't a sufficiently strong purpose to outweigh voting-for-moderators.)
So I guess the analogy here would be if I want a particular user to have more influence, I'd vote up a post of theirs that I didn't think was very good in order to give them that influence? I guess this is a problem that would need to be dealt with. Some quick thoughts on solutions: Anonymize posts before they're voted on. Give Scott the ability to "punish" everyone who voted up a particularly bad post and lessen their moderation abilities.
Another system to consider would be to do it based on the way people administer votes, not the way they remove them. If your votes tend to correlate with others', they have more weight in future. If posts you flag tend to get removed, your flags count for more. (I'm not convinced that this works either.)
A related idea that might work better: Make it so downvotes work to decrease the karma score of everyone who upvoted a particular thing. This incentivizes upvoting things that people won't find upsetting, which works against the sort of controversy the rest of the internet incentivizes. But there's no Keynesian beauty contest because you can never gain points through upvoting, only lose them. This also creates the possibility that there will be a cost associated with upvoting a thing, which makes karma a bit more like currency (not necessarily a bad thing).
The Less Wrong diaspora demonstrates that the toughest competition for online forums may be individual personal blogs. By writing on your personal blog, you build up you own status & online presence. To be more competitive with personal blogs, it might make sense to give high-karma users of a hypothetical SSC forum the ability to upvote their own posts multiple times, in addition to those of others. That way if I have a solid history of making quality contributions, I'd also have the ability to upvote a new post of mine multiple times if it was an i...
This is a response to ingres' recent post sharing Less Wrong survey results. If you haven't read & upvoted it, I strongly encourage you to--they've done a fabulous job of collecting and presenting data about the state of the community.
So, there's a bit of a contradiction in the survey results. On the one hand, people say the community needs to do more scholarship, be more rigorous, be more practical, be more humble. On the other hand, not much is getting posted, and it seems like raising the bar will only exacerbate that problem.
I did a query against the survey database to find the complaints of top Less Wrong contributors and figure out how best to serve their needs. (Note: it's a bit hard to read the comments because some of them should start with "the community needs more" or "the community needs less", but adding that info would have meant constructing a much more complicated query.) One user wrote:
ingres emphasizes that in order to revitalize the community, we would need more content. Content is important, but incentives for producing content might be even more important. Social status may be the incentive humans respond most strongly to. Right now, from a social status perspective, the expected value of creating a new Less Wrong post doesn't feel very high. Partially because many LW posts are getting downvotes and critical comments, so my System 1 says my posts might as well. And partially because the Less Wrong brand is weak enough that I don't expect associating myself with it will boost my social status.
When Less Wrong was founded, the primary failure mode guarded against was Eternal September. If Eternal September represents a sort of digital populism, Less Wrong was attempting a sort of digital elitism. My perception is that elitism isn't working because the benefits of joining the elite are too small and the costs are too large. Teddy Roosevelt talked about the man in the arena--I think Less Wrong experienced the reverse of the evaporative cooling EY feared, where people gradually left the arena as the proportional number of critics in the stands grew ever larger.
Given where Less Wrong is at, however, I suspect the goal of revitalizing Less Wrong represents a lost purpose.
ingres' survey received a total of 3083 responses. Not only is that about twice the number we got in the last survey in 2014, it's about twice the number we got in 2013, 2012, and 2011 (though much bigger than the first survey in 2009). It's hard to know for sure, since previous surveys were only advertised on the LessWrong.com domain, but it doesn't seem like the diaspora thing has slowed the growth of the community a ton and it may have dramatically accelerated it.
Why has the community continued growing? Here's one possibility. Maybe Less Wrong has been replaced by superior alternatives.
Less Wrong had a great run, and the superior alternatives wouldn't exist in their current form without it. (LW was easily the most common way people heard about EA in 2014, for instance, although sampling effects may have distorted that estimate.) But that doesn't mean it's the best option going forward.
Therefore, here are some things I don't think we should do:
But that doesn't mean there's nothing to be done. Here are some possible weaknesses I see with our current setup:
ingres mentions the possibility of Scott Alexander somehow opening up SlateStarCodex to other contributors. This seems like a clearly superior alternative to revitalizing Less Wrong, if Scott is down for it:
But the most important reasons may be behavioral reasons. SSC has more traffic--people are in the habit of visiting there, not here. And the posting habits people have acquired there seem more conducive to community. Changing habits is hard.
As ingres writes, revitalizing Less Wrong is probably about as difficult as creating a new site from scratch, and I think creating a new site from scratch for Scott is a superior alternative for the reasons I gave.
So if there's anyone who's interested in improving Less Wrong, here's my humble recommendation: Go tell Scott Alexander you'll build an online forum to his specification, with SSC community feedback, to provide a better solution for his overflowing open threads. Once you've solved that problem, keep making improvements and subfora so your forum becomes the best available alternative for more and more use cases.
And here's my humble suggestion for what an SSC forum could look like:
As I mentioned above, Eternal September is analogous to a sort of digital populism. The major social media sites often have a "mob rule" culture to them, and people are increasingly seeing the disadvantages of this model. Less Wrong tried to achieve digital elitism and it didn't work well in the long run, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Edge.org has found a model for digital elitism that works. There may be other workable models out there. A workable model could even turn in to a successful company. Fight the hot new thing by becoming the hot new thing.
My proposal is based on the idea of eigendemocracy. (Recommended that you read the link before continuing--eigendemocracy is cool.) In eigendemocracy, your trust score is a composite rating of what trusted people think of you. (It sounds like infinite recursion, but it can be resolved using linear algebra.)
Eigendemocracy is a complicated idea, but a simple way to get most of the way there would be to have a forum where having lots of karma gives you the ability to upvote multiple times. How would this work? Let's say Scott starts with 5 karma and everyone else starts with 0 karma. Each point of karma gives you the ability to upvote once a day. Let's say it takes 5 upvotes for a post to get featured on the sidebar of Scott's blog. If Scott wants to feature a post on the sidebar of his blog, he upvotes it 5 times, netting the person who wrote it 1 karma. As Scott features more and more posts, he gains a moderation team full of people who wrote posts that were good enough to feature. As they feature posts in turn, they generate more co-moderators.
Why do I like this solution?
TL;DR - Despite appearances, the Less Wrong community is actually doing great. Any successor to Less Wrong should try to offer compelling advantages over options that are already available.