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MrMind comments on Secret Rationality Base in Europe - Less Wrong
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Comments (33)
Ideally, a rationality HQ for Europe will not be too far from any other country, and possibly be in a place supportive of open mindedness and with a strong scientific culture.
That's why I think Berlin is a wonderful choice: while in the recent decades Europe has grown eastwards, it still remains accessible from almost anywhere. Germans also have a reputation of being conscentious people, and Berlin to be a cosmopolitan capital.
Yes, Berlin is the most obvious candidate at this point, and it seems strong on most fronts except climate and prices.
Note that cheap flights make "not be too far from any other country" much less important than it used to be.
Note that saying "X. That's why I think Y" is a straightforward transformation of "I think Y, because X", which I've been asking not to say.
As an exercise in consequentialist thinking, I suggest you rephrase your comment :)
Prices aren't bad compared to other big cities.
It's not anymore the price level it had when Tim Ferriss wrote the 4HW and recommended digital nomads to move to Berlin to have it super cheap, but it's still relatively cheap.
Which city do you consider suitable that is cheaper than Berlin?
In most cities I think you couldn't run an event like the LWCW for 150€.
Acknowledged, but you are comparing only to famous and expensive cities.
So to make the ranking more fair - e.g. I've been living in Kraków which is more than 40% cheaper than Berlin in every aspect (though I'm not recommending it for a rationality hub) http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Germany&country2=Poland&city1=Berlin&city2=Krakow+%28Cracow%29
And I'll be going on a 3-month vacation on Malta, which is also visibly cheaper: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Germany&country2=Malta&city1=Berlin&city2=Birkirkara
A lot of the people on LW are programmers and thus want to be employeed by software companies. Those generally exist in big cities. Big cities also tend to draw a lot of diverse ideas.
I can talk to someone in Berkely about Circling/Authentic Relating because there are Circling Events in Berlin and there are Circling/Authentic events in Berkely.
I haven't checked but I wouldn't expect to find Circling in Kraków or Malta.
Malta happens to have some interesting properties but I would guess that it would take significant financial resources to build something there.
Thanks for that site!
I think that "not be too far from any other country" would lead to a more open community with more fluent membership status. People who feel vaguely connected to a community will go to events which are closeby, but are less likely to attend if they have to fly (and consequently have to plan much longer in advance). At least I'm willing to travel much longer in a train – where I can do work – if I can avoid flying that way, which seems to consist solely of controlls and queueing.
Hmm yes, thanks, indeed it probably applies to quite a few people.
I don't personally get the whole "spend a lot of time in a train/car" thing, so let me also ask: what distance on land (or travel time) would make you give up on a train trip?
Distance does not matter, travel time does. As does pricing because prices for train and plane are basically unrelated and because I'm currently a student and don't have much money. My decision mostly depends on the events around my travel – sometimes I have to fly to make it in time. This means I find it difficult to give a simple function, so let me give some examples:
• I currently live in Edinburgh and I fly to visit people in Germany or the Netherlands over the weekend. On the other hand, I will move back to the continent in September and will visit the LW community weekend "on the way". This will involve a travel time of around 25h over a period of 45h (13.5h train, 6h ferry, 4h cycling, 1h waiting, ~0.5h local transport). If I took a plane, it would cost around the same and I'd spent 10h (1.5h flight, 2h security/waiting, 1.5h local transport, 5h packing and unpacking bike + getting the packaging in the first place). EDIT: Without the bike, the times would be 19h (train through the tunnel) vs 5h and I'd fly.
• There is a reasonable probability that I'll be living in Switzerland soon, in which case I'm planning to do family visits by ~9h train instead of ~5h flight+transport. That is because I'm expecting it to be possible to do "home office" in the train.
• I really like night trains. I count night travel as 2-3h time investment due to reduced sleep quality.
• I prefer flying + airport shuttle over driving a car for the same total time if I'm the only driver. If this is a road trip with like-minded people and we share driving responsibilities, up to like 24h of driving seem okay during holidays. I'd probably prefer the plane once I have a job.
Care to elaborate?
It seems to be cheaper than anything west and north of it, except the Baltics. Going by the prices listed here.
Have you added the important note after I made the comment or I just missed it totally? Anyway:
If the European Base is going to be Berlin, members of a larger group of nations will be able to attend, due to the position being almost central from any other European countries. The community that is going to be developed there, as an entity nested inside the German government / culture / etc., will benefit from less ostracism and a wider acceptance even in its weirder facets (cryonics / poly...) thus enabling a better freedom of movement / speech / publications, etc.
Good (frequent/cheap) flight connections are more important than location itself. Flying e.g. from Tallinn to Athens takes about 5 hours (about 3 hours of actual flight time).
Yes, it was there from the beginning :)
You mean Berlin :)
I like this. (I might have a tendency to assume that poly & cryonics are completely normal everyday stuff, but it's probably not so :D)
Speaking about cryonics - is there any possibility to arrange in Germany to be frozen and shipped e.g. to KrioRus for storage?
Fixed, thanks!
It's very not so! Especially in Europe...
Not that I know of, but my experience is only about Italy...