entirelyuseless comments on Zombies Redacted - Less Wrong

33 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 02 July 2016 08:16PM

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Comment author: entirelyuseless 23 July 2016 03:11:02AM -1 points [-]

Yes, I noticed he overlooked the distinction between "I know I am conscious because it's my direct experience" and "I know I am conscious because I say 'I know I am conscious because it's my direct experience.'" And those are two entirely different things.

Comment author: hairyfigment 27 July 2016 01:20:45AM 2 points [-]

The first of those things is incompatible with the Zombie Universe Argument, if we take 'knowledge' to mean a probability that one could separate from the subjective experience. You can't assume that direct experience is epiphenomenal, meaning it doesn't cause any behavior or calculation directly, and then also assume, "I know I am conscious because it's my direct experience".

If it seems unfair to suggest that Chalmers doesn't know he himself is conscious, remember that to our eyes Chalmers is the one creating the problem; we say that consciousness is a major cause of our beliefs about consciousness.

Comment author: entirelyuseless 27 July 2016 03:53:14AM -1 points [-]

I don't think experience is epiphenomenal. As I said, I disagree with the Zombie world argument as proposed.

Nonetheless, it is not true that the first of those things is incompatible with the Zombie argument, even taken in that way. Because knowing I am conscious, not the saying of the words but the being, would itself be epiphenomenal, according to that theory. So direct experience could be the cause of someone knowing that he was conscious, because both of those (experience and knowing) would be epiphenonomenal, so that experience would not be the cause of anything physical (e.g. such as producing sounds that sound like someone saying "I know I am conscious because it's my direct experience.)