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Lumifer comments on The map of cognitive biases, errors and obstacles affecting judgment and management of global catastrophic risks - Less Wrong
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Comments (63)
Heh. "My sister got lucky, married a yuppie..." :-) But the point is the whole framework where the important thing about the girl is that she's a proletarian and the about that man is that he's bourgeoisie.
I do not intend to shame. How do you think I can express my surprise without you reading it as shaming?
Yes. Making generalizations about groups of people is a powerful, useful tool for decision-making.
Your surprise implies criticism. I assume you believe "it's dirty/wrong to generalize about groups of people. it's especially dirty/wrong to have negative beliefs about poor people and about lower-class people". I appreciate the criticism, though I imagine you find my beliefs repugnant.
Sometimes. And sometimes it will lead you astray. Especially if your classification scheme is... suspect.
Why? I am surprised at a lot of things, finding something unexpected and finding something worthy of criticism are orthogonal things.
I am sorry to disappoint you, I believe no such thing. Nothing even close to that.
I don't follow what about my beliefs is surprising to you, then.
As I mentioned, I associate your approach with the idea of a "class enemy". This comes straight out of Marxism and was a popular approach around the turn of the century -- the XX century, so more than a hundred years ago.
Marxism (and in particular the whole idea that social interactions are defined by the class struggle) has been pretty much discredited by now. Outside of some diehard pockets (in academia and hard-left organizations) no one really tries to claim that the class struggle is what drives social relationships. LW isn't particularly Marxist, either.
So that's why I was surprised to see what to me is an old and unpopular idea here -- and moreover, see it applied to a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship, not even to employment or something like that.
Can you argue the content? "Old" and "unpopular" are weak refutations.
Classism is part of current politics, as well as my personal experience.
I was explaining my surprise, not arguing the content, but do you want me to argue against the the claim that the class struggle is the main driver behind social organization and social relationships? I think it's a well-trodden ground.
On the basic level, the Marxist approach lacks explanatory power and makes wrong predictions.
"Being surprised" is privileging your own beliefs over others.
Denying the realities of class doesn't make them go away. Your beliefs are the map, but the terrterritory includes rich people who own the brands that own your mind.
What?? Sense makes not.
Surprise is the sensation you get when you prior beliefs (even if weak) were overturned or at least contradicted by empirical evidence. How is that "privileging your own beliefs"?
Besides, I certainly privilege my own beliefs over beliefs of other people. I don't know how one can function otherwise.
No they don't. I'm quite sure that my mind isn't owned by any brands (among other things I actively dislike advertising).
You're still doing it. Surprise + shaming instead of argument.