Brillyant comments on Open thread, Oct. 03 - Oct. 09, 2016 - Less Wrong

4 Post author: MrMind 03 October 2016 06:59AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Article Navigation

Comments (175)
Tags: open_thread

Comments (175)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: waveman 12 October 2016 02:57:02AM 1 point [-]

it seems indisputable to me

This is about as weak as an argument can possibly get.

<hypothetical case study that did not actually happen>

Again this is not evidence.

this study

Does not demonstrate irrational discrimination. They did not consider the possibility that a person's race actually gives you useful information about them.

Consider the following example:

There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.... After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating.

Remarks at a meeting of Operation PUSH in Chicago (27 November 1993). Quoted in "Crime: New Frontier - Jesse Jackson Calls It Top Civil-Rights Issue" by Mary A. Johnson, 29 November 1993, Chicago Sun-Times (ellipsis in original). Partially quoted in "In America; A Sea Change On Crime" by Bob Herbert, 12 December 1993, New York Times.

I have looked at the study before it is well known.

And if there are other factors. I'd love to hear some of your evidence for other factors.

IQ is known to be highly heritable and highly correlated with many measures of success. As are other psychological dimensions such as the Big 5. Source: any psychology textbook.

Perhaps you have heard the saying "rags to riches to rags in three generations". When I look at my family tree I see this happening many times.

Where I live a lot of the local whites are descended from prisoners who were slaves. They do not form an underclass in any way shape or form. In fact it is high status to have convict ancestry.

Or consider Jews, against whom there was massive discrimination until very recently. They have been very successful.

Comment author: Brillyant 12 October 2016 02:21:42PM *  -1 points [-]

This is about as weak as an argument can possibly get.

The idea that slavery/segregation/discrimination in America has had an effect is not in dispute. The argument is regarding it's significance.

[Your hypothetical case study] is not evidence.

I fully agree. I was trying to distill the issue into simple terms. I would argue it's nearly self evident that opportunity is passed on over generations, and that a head start for a group of people based on race could be persistent over multiple generations.

[The study you linked which shows resumes with black sounding names are less likely to receive callbacks for job opportunities than white sounding names] does not demonstrate irrational discrimination. They did not consider the possibility that a person's race actually gives you useful information about them.

Are you saying it is appropriate for employers to discriminate based on race?

Jesse Jackson says something about his contrasting intuitions about black and white people...

Per capita murder rates are no doubt higher among blacks. The question is what caused this.

Perhaps you have heard the saying "rags to riches to rags in three generations". When I look at my family tree I see this happening many times.

You are not being discriminated against (or segregated) as a minority race.

Where I live a lot of the local whites are descended from prisoners who were slaves. They do not form an underclass in any way shape or form. In fact it is high status to have convict ancestry.

They are not being discriminated against (or segregated) as a minority race.

Edit: Regarding evidence slavery having an effect on current day conditions... Here is a study showing "the 1860 slave concentration is related to contemporary black-white inequality in poverty, independent of contemporary demographic and economic conditions, racialized wealth disparities and racial threat. [This] research suggests the importance of slavery for shaping existing U.S. racial inequality patterns."

Powered by Reddit Powered by Reddit