entirelyuseless comments on An attempt in layman's language to explain the metaethics sequence in a single post. - Less Wrong

1 Post author: Bound_up 12 October 2016 01:57PM

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Comment author: entirelyuseless 19 October 2016 03:20:05AM 0 points [-]

"There are different sets of self-consistent values." This is true, but I do not agree that all logically possible sets of self-consistent values represent moralities. For example, it would be logically possible for an animal to value nothing but killing itself; but this does not represent a morality, because such an animal cannot exist in reality in a stable manner. It cannot come into existence in a natural way (namely by evolution) at all, even if you might be able to produce one artificially. If you do produce one artificially, it will just kill itself and then it will not exist.

This is part of what I was saying about how when people use words differently they hope to accomplish different things. I speak of morality in general, not to mean "logically consistent set of values", but a set that could reasonably exist in the real word with a real intelligent being. In other words, restricting morality to human values is an indirect way of promoting the position that human values are arbitrary.

As I said, I don't think Eliezer would accept that characterization of his position, and you give one reason why he would not. But he has a more general view where only some sets of values are possible for merely accidental reasons, namely because it just happens that things cannot evolve in other ways. I would say the contrary -- it is not an accident that the value of killing yourself cannot evolve, but this is because killing yourself is bad.

And this kind of explains how "good" has to be unpacked. Good would be what tends to cause tendencies towards itself. Survival is one example, but not the only one, even if everything else will at least have to be consistent with that value. So e.g. not only is survival valued by intelligent creatures in all realistic conditions, but so is knowledge. So knowledge and survival are both good for all intelligent creatures. But since different creatures will produce their knowledge and survival in different ways, different things will be good for them in relation to these ends.

Comment author: TheAncientGeek 20 October 2016 04:49:37AM *  2 points [-]

Good would be what tends to cause tendencies towards itself. Survival is one example

Any virulently self-reproducing meme would be another.

Comment author: entirelyuseless 20 October 2016 01:29:15PM -2 points [-]

This would be a long discussion, but there's some truth in that, and some falsehood.