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entirelyuseless comments on Double Crux — A Strategy for Resolving Disagreement - Less Wrong

61 Post author: Duncan_Sabien 29 November 2016 09:23PM

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Comment author: entirelyuseless 01 December 2016 01:48:35PM *  3 points [-]

I've waited to make this comment because I wanted to read this carefully a few times first, but it seems to me that the "crux" might not be doing a lot here, compared to simply getting people to actually think about and discuss an issue, instead of thinking about argument in terms of winning and losing. I'm not saying the double crux strategy doesn't work, but that it may work mainly because it gives the people something to work at other than winning and losing, and something that involves trying to understand the issues.

One thing that I have noticed working is this rule: say what is right about what the other person said before you criticize anything about it. And if you think there is nothing right about the content, at least say what you think is actually evidence for it. (If you think there is literally no evidence at all for it, then you basically think the other person is lying.) This can work pretty well even if only person is doing it, and I'm not sure that two people can consistently do it without arriving at least at a significant amount of agreement.

Comment author: atucker 01 December 2016 02:31:23PM 2 points [-]

I think that crux is doing a lot of work in that it forces the conversation to be about something more specific than the main topic, and because it makes it harder to move the goal posts partway through the conversation. If you're not talking about a crux then you can write off a consideration as "not really the main thing" after talking about it.

Comment author: Duncan_Sabien 01 December 2016 06:46:28PM 1 point [-]

I agree with both you and atucker—I think the crux is doing the important things they cite, but I also think that a significant amount of the value comes from the overall reframing of the dynamic.