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PrawnOfFate comments on Whither Moral Progress? - Less Wrong
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No., because your beliefs might be wrong. Aris was asserting relativism against error theory, non-congitivism and realism. Relativism is the claim that some set of statements have truth values, and have truth values that are relative to something. Relativism is not proven simply by producing evidence of conflicting beliefs.
A small note: I don't consider myself a moral relativist, though I understand why my statement was misunderstood as such, as I was vastly simplifying my position. My actual position on morality probably needs a full discussion post to be fully explained.
I do think that for any X, X can only be called "morally wrong" according to some moral/ethical system, but I also think that there may exist objective criteria which might invalidate some moral/ethical systems altogether, or even rank (at least somewhat) the validity of the various moral/ethical systems.
I'm well aware they could be wrong - in fact that's my whole point. The answer depends on which moral theory is true - even though only one theory is actually true. It's a counterfactual.
Since Aris says they're not a moral reletavist, I suspect this is at least similar to what they intended. If it's not, I'd still endorse it.
why would an "ethciical/moral set" be what makes a moral claim (realistically) true? Realists tend to think claims are rendered true by some sort of fact.
The position of realism + belief in such a fact is one such "ethical/moral set", as I meant it. I think that may have come across as referring to different terminal values or something?
Realists think claims are made true by facts, not beliefs in facts.
Right, but it depends which facts are true. The answer is contingent on these disputed facts.
ETA: edited for wording.
Sure. Which theory will be believed to be true depends on which facts are believed to be true, and which theory is actually true will depend on which facts are actually true. But beleiving one thing to be true becuae you believe another to be tirue is non argument for relativism, although careless wording can make it seem that way.
Sorry, I'm having trouble parsing that :( Possibly because I'm misreading the typos?
I believe we've established that shminux's position allows for some models to be made more accurate than others by events, not beliefs in events. I think these two positions are analogous.
Different conversation ;)
We're talking about moral realism here, sort of.
Whoops! You're entirely right; I should have read the parent-tree before responding, but I was confident that I knew what the conversation was. Retracted.