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Bugmaster comments on Math is Subjunctively Objective - Less Wrong
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Why ?
Hmm, well, if you truly believe that truth is subjective, then there's nothing I can do to dissuade you, by definition -- since my subjective opinion is as good as yours. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to go build some hula-hoops, and then maybe take to the skies by will alone.
Doesn't seem to apply here, because Randolf admits that reality doesn't care what nonsense he believes. The only problem is he seems intent on describing that nonsense as 'truth' and refusing to label what it is that reality is doing, which is what everyone else is calling 'truth'.
Hehe, I knew someone would pick up on my reference, I just didn't realize how fast it would happen :-)
But my point was this: if Randolf really does believe that truth is subjective, and that it is arrived at mostly through feelings and intuitions, then he has effectively removed himself from rational debate. There's nothing I can say that will persuade him one way or another, because there's no useful mechanism by which my subjective beliefs can influence his subjective beliefs. So, there's little point in arguing with him on this (or any other) topic.
Randolf, my apologies if I seem to be putting words in your mouth; the above paragraph is simply my personal interpretation of your claim, taken to its logical conclusion.
No, I think you understood pretty well what I meant. However, even though I may not be a rationalist myself, I think I can still take part in rational debate by embracing the definition of rational truth during that debate. Same way a true Christian can take part in a scientific debate about evolution, even if he doesn't actually believe that evolution is true. Rational talk, just like any talking, can also change my feelings and intuitions and hence persuade me to change my subjective beliefs.
However, I now realise this wasn't exactly the right place to tell about my idea of subjective truth. Sorry about that.
I don't think it will work in this case, because we're debating the very notion of rational truth.
I personally didn't mean to give you that impression at all, I apologize if I did. Just because I happen to think that using reason to debate with someone who does not value reason is futile, doesn't mean that I want to actively discourage such debate. After all, I could be wrong !
Yes, I agree, it doesn't work on this case. It was an interesting talk though, thank you for that. Now I must sleep over this..
Oh, you probably could. I'm not so fond on this definition. It's just something I have found most satisfying so far but it's still subject to chance (How ironic!).