Kindly comments on Math is Subjunctively Objective - Less Wrong

14 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 25 July 2008 11:06AM

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Comment author: Bugmaster 18 October 2011 11:43:52PM 1 point [-]

I am not Randolf, but I've met people who would answer this question thusly:

Ultimately, you are still relying on faith, intuition, or some other objective criterion in order to construct all of these logical proofs. I could choose different axioms and construct some proofs of my own, which would differ from yours. Furthermore, the very value you place on axioms and logic is subjective; I, on the other hand, place a much higher value on feelings and intuitions. Therefore, even though your arguments may be entirely logical and therefore important in your subjective worldview, they hold very little value in mine (though the reverse is also true).

I don't think it's possible to use logic to convince someone of the importance of logic, unless he happens to be convinced already.

Comment author: Nornagest 19 October 2011 12:24:09AM 3 points [-]

You can use naive logic to convince people of the importance of more rigorous logic, though, and I suspect that most of the people decrying logic, axiomatic systems, etc. aren't objecting to reasoning in general so much as certain levels of formality, or certain attitudes surrounding them. I've met a lot of people claiming to put more stock in gut feelings than clever reasoning, but I've never met one such that didn't have a handy store of justifications for their beliefs -- which seems to point to a certain trust even if it's unacknowledged.

Comment author: Bugmaster 19 October 2011 01:11:09AM 3 points [-]

I suspect that most of the people decrying logic, axiomatic systems, etc. aren't objecting to reasoning in general so much as certain levels of formality...

Or, in my experience, specific topics. For example, such a person would say that reasoning does apply to topics such as deciding which car to buy, or which stock to invest to, or what the sum of the angles in a triangle is. Reasoning does not, however, apply to other topics such as deciding what to eat for lunch, which deity to worship (if any), whom to date, and which topics are subject to reason in the first place.

The above is a real example, BTW (assuming I understood the person's position correctly).

Comment author: TheOtherDave 19 October 2011 03:49:16AM 1 point [-]

(nods) I generally summarize this as "reason is useful only for those topics where I'm confident I'm right or am willing to be corrected if wrong." To which my response is typically "how very convenient for you that it works out that way."