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JohnH comments on Excluding the Supernatural - Less Wrong

37 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 12 September 2008 12:12AM

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Comment author: JohnH 22 April 2011 01:18:18AM 0 points [-]

The definition given of supernatural doesn't make sense from my perspective, not even of God. As far as I can tell the definition describes exactly nothing.

I still believe in the supernatural in the sense of I know God is real and so are spirits and the devil. However spirit is some form of matter, God has a body of flesh and bones, and both God and the rest of the universe has existed in some form forever. Also God does not violate natural laws, though he does work with higher laws then what we currently know. Clearly not the standard religous claims and while it may seem that I am tailoring these beliefs to meet objections I am not; they are found in the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and were given in the 1830-1840's.

You asked.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 22 April 2011 01:26:11AM 7 points [-]

So basically God is a sufficiently advanced alien.

Comment author: JohnH 22 April 2011 01:39:27AM 1 point [-]

Basically yes, though we are of the same species as him. Not that being the same species makes him any less of an alien as in the Pearl of Great Price does say that there are other worlds on which humans live. The D&C also basically says there are non-human intelligent aliens out there as well.

Comment author: Alicorn 22 April 2011 02:18:08AM *  4 points [-]

The D&C also basically says there are non-human intelligent aliens out there as well.

Do they report to a different deity, so they match, or do they share ours?

(My Mormon friends are mostly sick of talking to me about religion. I congratulate you on being noncombative and civil here.)

Comment author: JohnH 22 April 2011 02:31:06AM 1 point [-]

The specific passage is in reference to the strange creatures in Revelation where the creatures do in fact report to our deity. There may be others that do not, if there are such information has not be revealed as of yet, though all things will eventually be revealed so I suppose we will eventually find out in some way, it just might not be until the millennium.

Comment author: badger 25 April 2011 04:19:40PM 3 points [-]

Do you know the reference for that? A quick Google search didn't turn up anything.

Growing up in the church, I took it as given that there were people growing up on other worlds, but this is the first time I've heard of non-human intelligent beings.

Comment author: JohnH 25 April 2011 06:01:32PM 1 point [-]

Revelation 4:6-9 - is where the beasts or creatures are described D&C 77:2-4 - is where it says they are both figurative as well as literal beasts or creatures.

Comment author: badger 25 April 2011 04:30:43PM 2 points [-]

This is non-standard, but not uncommon. My father-in-law will readily say he believes in a non-omniscient, non-omnipotent, naturalistic god.

The other extreme – everything is supernatural – is also present in LDS theology. All matter is composed of intelligence and hence under God's command because it recognizes his authority.