whowhowho comments on The Level Above Mine - Less Wrong
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I did not say that non-reductionism is absurd. I said that "recognizing the absurdity of all other proposed hypotheses is another way of coming about the correct beliefs".
Nonetheless, I do think that non-reductionism is absurd. I cannot imagine a universe which is not reductionistic.
One formulation of reductionism is that natural laws can be ordered in a hierarchy, with the higher-level laws being predictable from, or reducible to, the lower ones. So emergentism, in the cognate sense, not working would be that stack of laws failing to collapse down to the lowest level.
There's two claims there: one contentious, one not. That there are multiply-realisable, substrate-independent higher-level laws is not contentious. For instance, wave equations have the same form for water waves, sound waves and so on. The contentious claim is that this is ipso facto top-down causation. Substrate-independent laws are still reducible to substrates, because they are predictable from the behaviour of their substrates.
I don't see how that refutes the above at all. For one thing, Laughlin and Ellis do have detailed examples of emergent laws (in their rather weak sense of "emergent"). For another, they are not calling on emergence itself as doing any explaining. "Emergence isn't explanatory" doesn't refute "emergence is true". For a third, I don't see any absurdity here. I see a one-word-must-have-one-meaning assumption that is clouding the issue. But where a problem is so fuzzilly defined that it is hard even to identify the "sides", then one can't say that one side is "absurd".
Neither are supposed to make predictions. Each can be considered a methodology for finding laws, and it is the laws that do the predicting. Each can also be seen as a meta-level summary fo the laws so far found.
EY can't do that for MWI either. Maybe it isn't all about prediction.
That's robustly true. Genetic code has to be interpreted by a cellular environment. There are no self-decoding codes.
Reudctionism is an approach that can succeed or fail. It isn't true apriori. If reductionism failed, would you say that we should not even contemplate non-reductionism? Isn't that a bit like eEinstein's stubborn opposition to QM?
I suppose you mean that the reductionistic explanation isn't always the most complete explanation...well everything exists in a context.
There is no apriori guarantee that such an explanation will be complete.
That isn't the emergentist claim at all.
Why? Because you described them as "laws of physics"? An emergentist wouldn't. Your objections seem to assume that some kind of reductionism+determinism combination is true ITFP. That's just gainsaying the emergentist claim.
If there is top-down causation, then its laws must be couched in terms of lower-level AND higher-level properties. And are therefore not reductionistic. You seem to be tacitly assuming that there are no higher-level properties.
Cross-level laws aren't "laws of physics". Emergentists may need to assume that microphysical laws have "elbow room", in order to avoid overdetermination, but that isn't obviously wrong or absurd.
As it happens, no-one does. That objections was made in the most upvoted response to his article.
Can you predict qualia from brain-states?
Mechanisms have to break down into their components because they are built up from components. And emergentists would insist that that does not generalise.
Or as a hint about how to go about understanding them.
That's not what E-ism says at all.
That's an outcome you would get with common or garden indeterminism. Again: reductionism is NOT determinism.
What's supposed to be absurd there? Top-down causation, or top-down causation that only applies to DNA?
The arguments for emergence tend not be good. Neither are the arguments against. A dippsute about a poorly-defined distinction wit poor arguments on both sides isn't a dispute where one side is "absurd".