Awww, a Zebra - Less Wrong

Awww, a Zebra

Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:28:05 +1000

Submitted by Eliezer_Yudkowsky • 15 votes • 44 comments

This image recently showed up on Flickr (original is nicer):

With the caption:

"Alas for those who turn their eyes from zebras and dream of dragons! If we cannot learn to take joy in the merely real, our lives shall be empty indeed." —Eliezer S. Yudkowsky.

"Awww!", I said, and called over my girlfriend over to look.

"Awww!", she said, and then looked at me, and said, "I think you need to take your own advice!"

Me: "But I'm looking at the zebra!"
Her: "On a computer!"
Me: (Turns away, hides face.)
Her: "Have you ever even seen a zebra in real life?"
Me: "Yes! Yes, I have! My parents took me to Lincoln Park Zoo! ...man, I hated that place."

Part of the Joy in the Merely Real subsequence of Reductionism

Next post: "Hand vs. Fingers"

Previous post: "Initiation Ceremony"

44 comments

Anonymous44 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T12:11:08+10:00

"Alas, for those who turn their eyes from dragons and dream of zebras! If we cannot take joy in the merely fantasy, our lives shall be empty indeed." - Eliezer S. Yudkowsky, in a parallel universe.

I never expected a post from Overcoming Bias as informal as a picture with commentary from flickr.com. (But I suppose that's a fact about my own state of poor calibration).

anonymous1 on Awww, a Zebra

2012-11-05T02:31:17.238216+11:00

Laughing out loud right now.

Lara_Foster2 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T12:30:48+10:00

Ohhhh... oh so many things I could substitute for the word 'Zebra'....

Tiiba3 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T13:36:12+10:00

Well, a picture of a zebra is real.

And you'll probably agree that the merely real is, in some ways, in need of improvement, which is the whole point of transhumanism.

Rixie on Awww, a Zebra

2013-03-30T07:39:40.238484+11:00

Oh my gosh . . .

My friend has litterally just enlightened my on the whole weeping angel thing and wow does this comment not belong here.

l on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T13:36:12+10:00

I didn't know Eliezer had a girlfriend, how can you justify spending resources on that sort of thing?

Not an attack though, you probably have a good reason, I just can't figure out what it is.

Aspiring_Vulcan on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T13:58:03+10:00

I didn't know Eliezer had a girlfriend, how can you justify spending resources on that sort of thing?

Not an attack though, you probably have a good reason, I just can't figure out what it is.

Was this written in jest? It's hilarious.

Nominull3 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T14:13:12+10:00

No time for love, we've got a world to save!

...or so the theory runs.

pnrjulius on Awww, a Zebra

2012-04-09T16:24:24.354842+10:00

This does not seem like an evolutionarily stable strategy.

Nominull3 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T14:14:26+10:00

Now that I think about it I seem to recall seeing a clever excuse for indulging in the pleasures of the flesh that Eliezer had written. Can't remember where off the top of my head, though...

Doug_S. on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T16:13:22+10:00

[missing the point] I like cats better. [/missing the point]

Eli's_other_project on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T16:20:14+10:00

*gasp* Hasn't Eli been working only on his mind-children? Can we expect another permutation of the superior genes that brought us so much awesomeness in the form of Eli?

Eliezer_Yudkowsky on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T16:36:50+10:00

Can we expect another permutation of the superior genes that brought us so much awesomeness in the form of Eli?

No.

gwern on Awww, a Zebra

2011-12-03T04:28:33.856094+11:00

Is this for intrinsic or simply instrumental reasons? For example, how much of your time would being a sperm donor have to take up before you would decline to do it?

Ben_Wraith3 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T17:01:56+10:00

Aspiring Vulcan: I didn't think it was written in jest, it seems like a legitimate question to me. It definitely seems plausible that having a girlfriend would have some benefits that would help Eli save the world, but how to justify spending time and resources on a girlfriend that could be spent on other things is a good question nonetheless.

Vizikahn2 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T18:22:37+10:00

Alas for those who turn their eyes from ladies and google themselves.

Eli's_other_project on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T22:47:48+10:00

Can one make scientific breakthroughs without dedicating all of one's waking hours to it? Newton: Science: Best Sans Booty.

pnrjulius on Awww, a Zebra

2012-04-09T16:25:02.484817+10:00

Feynman: FUCK THAT.

retired_urologist on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T23:10:03+10:00

In medicine, the concept "zebra" represents a strange, unlikely condition or diagnosis, usually to be avoided or considered on a lower tier, iterated thus: When one hears hoofbeats, one should think of horses rather than zebras. Spending too much time chasing zebras detracts from making the diagnosis of "horse". Coincidence? Or just another example of the medical field's poor thought process?

jkaufman on Awww, a Zebra

2010-11-11T04:28:17.434232+11:00

The medical advice you're relating sounds quite reasonable. It's saying to consider base rates when making a diagnosis. If P(hoofbeats|horse) is the same as P(hoofbeats|zebra) but P(horse) >> P(zebra), then P(horse|hoofbeats) >> P(zebra|hoofbeats).

bigjeff5 on Awww, a Zebra

2011-02-03T11:39:57.207406+11:00

It probably isn't very good advice if you're practicing medicine on the savanna though. There, if you hear hoofbeats, it's probably a zebra!

Cyan2 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-01T23:24:29+10:00

Science: Best Sans Booty.

Schrรถdinger disagreed. (So did Einstein... and Feynman... I could mention Kinsey, but that would be cheating, I supppose.)

control_master on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T02:27:09+10:00

It's not just about spending resources - In my experience, having a girlfriend makes you dangerously comfortable with being a mere human, whereas bitter loneliness makes you see the necessity of achieving incorporeal modes of existence much more clearly.

(this comment will be remembered as a significant milestone in singularitarian demographics)

TGGP4 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T07:16:33+10:00

Against Cyan I refer to James Watson and some nifty graphs.

Eli's_other_project on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T11:06:59+10:00

I suggest Eliezer (any aspiring world-saving scientist) deal with the-signal-from-downstairs like with hunger; get a snack and forget about it. No whipping into eating-frenzy by watching cooking shows...

Eli's_other_project on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T11:21:36+10:00

...and no, you don't need your own personal chef. Sure, they cook a tastier meal, but they also make you eat more often than you need to; having a chef just combines the maximum of temptation with the maximum of opportunity...

Oppenheimer on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T12:08:06+10:00

I need physics more than friends. I place more importance on my studies than myself. I often go long periods without social contact outside of my professional colleagues, and at times even long periods without food or rest.

Eliezer_Yudkowsky on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T16:51:35+10:00

Her: "Pass me the laptop, I want to see if there were any comments on that post."

Me: "No, you don't. They're pretty awful."

(Girlfriend looks.)

Her: "That's awful."

Me: "Yep."

Tiiba2 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T18:36:14+10:00

My fears:

1. Paperclip AI 2. People I know IRL catching me reading something embarrassing on the Internet 3. Nuclear war 4. The zombie under my bed

Awww,_a_girlfriend_>_Singularity on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T19:35:23+10:00

Awful, perhaps, but are these arguments true?

Are you willing to take the risk that you're going to have to admit on your death bed: If only I hadn't succumbed to the dictates of my genes... If only I hadn't lived like the majority; if only I hadn't done what had been done so many times before by so many billions of organisms... If only I had been different enough. But I wasn't. I let my genes pilfer my time for simple, two-dimensional pleasure signals. I placed greater value on companionship than progress. I exchanged the now, for the eternity. I could have saved the world... but now I lay here dying, instead of living forever.

After the Singularity, there's plenty of time for girlfriends. And boyfriends. And robofriends. Trillions of them. You can super-saturate your re-designed gender-specific feedback modules again and again.

But not now. Lead the way. Go wirehead later. Delay gratification. Be a transhuman. Ditch the...

Singularity_sooner,_fun_later on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T20:02:26+10:00

If you know you can save the world, or do anything significant that has eternal repercussions, that no other human is likely to do in the mid to long term - if you are truly a once-in-a-civilization-event - how irrational is it to do anything else?

If you can't reprogram your mind from "Having a companion is a good idea." to "Having a companion is neglecting my duties.", having no companion may feel like sacrifice. But if you can, or you start with the latter conviction, having a companion feels like the height of folly. Torment. Frustration. Time away from your true love - The Singularity.

With great power comes great responsibility - non-transferable, non-delegatable responsibility.

Richard_Hollerith2 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T20:06:29+10:00

They're still pretty awful, IMHO.

Baseline_singularitarian on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T20:24:22+10:00

As someone who is pooling all my resources (mind and money) into expediting the development of technologies leading to the Singularity, having a companion never entered my consciousness. (And I've had my share of applicants - heck, I've been asked to marry on the spot several times by super hotties, so I'm really making a real sacrifice here - if I thought like a baseline human, which I don't.)

Aron on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T20:24:23+10:00

Strong AI doesn't have to be the only thing that's really frikkin' hard.

Reprogrammed_goal_system on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T20:42:58+10:00

Not doing what your genes tell you to do, e.g. not having a companion (not wanting to have a companion), overcoming your genes, is an artificial goal, the result of reprogramming - of self-improvement.

SL5 on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T20:59:53+10:00

Through his cerebrations Eliezer appears to have attracted the Cream of the Singularitarian Crop here, who are now Collectively Disappointed.

AnnaSalamon on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T21:14:11+10:00

l, Aww, Ben_Wraith:

While I appreciate the effort toward optimal decision-making, surely there is some way to contribute without invading Eliezer's personal life?

Can you picture anyone doing peak creative work while trying to justify every ounce of their resource use? To others or to themselves? Eliezer presumably knows he doesn't need to do that, but... threads like this can't help his or others' morale. And morale is a precious resource.

Group efforts in general, and particularly philanthropic efforts, devolve too easily into shows of self-sacrifice. After all, sacrifice takes less effort in many ways, and it looks like trying . If we want to create a positive singularity, we'll need to make our project fun, we'll need to make the actual useful work attractive, we'll need to get people aim for achievement (not for an appearance of "using all their resources"), and we'll to make it something that real people want to join and don't burn out at.

It isn't only Eliezer who can help, by the way. If nothing else, you can help the effort get money; some of those willing and able able to do FAI research are spending their time raising money, right now, for lack of other ways to get money. If you find a way to gather money for the effort, more research will be done and the chances of a positive singularity will improve. There are other possibilities for helping, too. If you're concerned about the future, perhaps take a look at what you have, who you know, and what you might do? Creating a positive singularity can be a lot of fun.

johnsonmx on Awww, a Zebra

2012-10-01T08:15:58.385170+10:00

I think the first 3/4ths are very well stated. I couldn't agree more.

On the last bit, my personal intuition is there are plenty of things people can do for FAI research beyond raising money. Moreover, such intangibles are likely often more important to the cause of FAI than cash.

(Also, the argument that "some of those willing and able able to do FAI research are spending their time raising money, right now, for lack of other ways to get money" may be undermined by the paragraph above it; e.g., I'd rather be thinking about FAI than raising money for others to think about FAI.)

Eliezer_Yudkowsky on Awww, a Zebra

2008-10-02T21:27:14+10:00

And with that, I'll close the thread. I may be mistaken, but I don't think this is what most of our readership comes here to read.

Note that the authors "SL5", "Reprogrammed goal system", "Baseline singularitarian", "Singularity sooner, fun later", "Awww, a girlfriend > Singularity", "Oppenheimer", and "Eli's other project" all seem to be the same person based on IP.

bogus on Awww, a Zebra

2009-10-12T09:09:31.688254+11:00

Interestingly, I've read that young Chinese do treat zebras as near-mythical creatures: they're referred to as "cǎo ní mǎ" (i.e. "grass-mud horses") and there's a lot of fantasy literature about them, much of it with political overtones. In contrast, dragons are little more than cultural and decorative symbols--although conversely, Chinese dragons do appear in some Western fantasy stories.

chimera on Awww, a Zebra

2011-09-07T02:53:37.065484+10:00

I think you might have been misinformed about this translation..

edit: you're mostly right but it's not a zebra.

Molybdenumblue on Awww, a Zebra

2011-09-07T02:57:21.020951+10:00

I don't even know who's pranking whom here.

rkyeun on Awww, a Zebra

2012-10-01T04:51:57.118553+10:00

If there is a better way to see a merely real zebra than to have the photons strike a surface, their patterns be stored, and transmitted to my brain, which cross-relates it to every fact about zebras, their behavior, habitat, physiology, and personality on my internal map of a zebra, then I don't know it and can't experience it, since that's what happens when I am in fact actually there, as well as what happens when I look at a picture that someone who was actually there shares with me.

johnsonmx on Awww, a Zebra

2012-10-01T08:20:15.862542+10:00

You probably get a much richer sensation of zebra-ness under some conditions (being there, touching the zebra, smelling the zebra, seeing it move) than just seeing a picture of one on flickr. Experiencing zebra-ness isn't a binary value, and some types of exposures will tend to commandeer many more neurons than others.