Allan_Crossman comments on BHTV: Jaron Lanier and Yudkowsky - Less Wrong

4 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 01 November 2008 05:04PM

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Comment author: Allan_Crossman 01 November 2008 09:56:25PM 0 points [-]

My issue with this is that we don't, actually, have a philosophical/rational/scientific vision of capital-T Truth yet, despite all of our efforts. (Descartes, Spinoza, Kant, etc.)

Truth is whatever describes the world the way it is.

Even the capital-T Truth believers will admit that we don't know how to achieve an understanding of that truth, they'll just say that it's possible because there really is this kind of truth.

Do you mean an understanding of the way the world is, or an understanding of what truth is?

Isn't it the case, then that your embracing this kind of objective truth is itself a "true because it's useful" kind of thinking, not a "true because it's true" kind of thinking?

You can of course define "truth" however you like - it's just a word. If you're expecting some sort of actual relationship to hold between - say - ink on a page saying "Jupiter has four large moons" and the moons of Jupiter themselves, then of course there's no such thing; the universe is just made of protons, electrons, and such mundane objects.

But there still really are four large moons of Jupiter.