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Lumifer comments on High Challenge - Less Wrong

22 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 19 December 2008 12:51AM

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Comment author: Lumifer 11 November 2015 04:45:26PM *  2 points [-]

the less ends up available for serving "self-actualizing" goals, conforming to socially-approved-of lifestyles,

LOL. For a lot of people "self-actualization" ends up with sitting on a couch in front of an idiot box, eating chips. Nowadays it might be in front of their FB feed, but that's essentially the same. And I'm not sure what are "socially-approved-of lifestyles" -- that seem to depend a lot on the society in question.

If you have an intuition which tells you that punishing people makes them act smarter, it is wrong.

No. My intuition is that the threat of pain/hunger/etc. makes people act. Incentives matter.

Comment author: [deleted] 13 November 2015 03:27:37AM -2 points [-]

LOL. For a lot of people "self-actualization" ends up with sitting on a couch in front of an idiot box, eating chips. Nowadays it might be in front of their FB feed, but that's essentially the same. And I'm not sure what are "socially-approved-of lifestyles" -- that seem to depend a lot on the society in question.

Look, the mere fact that you condescend at and disapprove of the actions of others doesn't mean you've proposed any kind of alternative (no, survivalism does not count, that problem was already solved), let alone demonstrated a metric by which your non-proposed alternative is superior (not even the "I like it" metric).

No. My intuition is that the threat of pain/hunger/etc. makes people act. Incentives matter.

Now explain why those actions or incentives matter, that is, what makes them superior to alternatives. No, sneering does not count.