insufferablejake comments on Sensual Experience - Less Wrong

13 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 21 December 2008 12:56AM

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Comment author: OrphanWilde 21 January 2013 01:31:13AM 5 points [-]

A visual representation of objects in a programming language context must necessarily be complete descriptions of those objects; either you're switching rapidly between multiple levels of abstraction in order to perform your work, or the sheer volume of screenspace necessary to encapsulate even relatively simple programming instructions results in difficulty comprehending program flow as a singular process.

Or, to put it another way - open up a simple paint program, and try drawing out a visual-programming approach to a very simple programming problem - say, reading the first twenty entries from a database and selecting a tuple based on the highest-valued column. Make the fake program logically complete; it should encapsulate every operation and data structure necessary (although you can presuppose libraries to interact with, it should represent those libraries, as well).

This is actually a problem I've been working on on-and-off for my company; we're trying to implement a comprehensive visual editor for our program, instead of the multiple-layers-of-abstraction visual editor that exists today. As it transpires, given the vast amount of information that needs to be available, symbol encoding - memorizing the meanings of large numbers of symbols in the context of the UI - is the only effective means we've found. And at that point you're just writing a scripting language using different letters than the English ones, and what's the point?

Comment author: insufferablejake 23 January 2013 09:54:28AM 0 points [-]

Makes sense, thank you for the elaboration.

At this point I would like to make the comparison to flow charts and their interpreters (us), but even in this case, when we look at a flowchart (with the purpose of implementing something) we mentally substitute the boxes and flows with the code/libraries/interfaces for them. Then following this thought, if we had a compiler that could do the same when fed a diagram ie. parse it to generate the appropriate code, we'd be getting somewhere, I suppose. But as it stands I see why a diagram might not be enough to formally encapsulate all the data and state needed for execution.