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nazgulnarsil3 comments on Failed Utopia #4-2 - Less Wrong

52 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 21 January 2009 11:04AM

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Comment author: nazgulnarsil3 21 January 2009 03:33:21PM 8 points [-]

am I missing something here? What is bad about this scenario? the genie himself said it will only be a few decades before women and men can be reunited if they choose. what's a few decades?

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 09 May 2012 08:49:55PM *  7 points [-]

A few decades with superstimulus-women around for the men, and superstimulus-men for the women? I don't expect that reunification to happen.

Although that doesn't in any way say that there's anything bad about this scenario. cough

EDIT: it would be bad if they didn't manage to get rid of the genie; then humanity would be stuck in this optimised-but-not-optimal state forever. As it is, it's a step forward if only because people won't age any more.

This story would be more disturbing if the 90% threshold was in fact never reached, as more and more people changed their minds and we watched the number go down and people get more comfortable and indolent while our protagonist remains one of the few helpless rebels...

Comment author: Alicorn 09 May 2012 08:52:51PM 3 points [-]

Siblings, offspring, parents, friends - heck, even celebrities of the opposite sex. Even if nobody wishes for their old partner back.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 09 May 2012 09:02:19PM *  1 point [-]

Nope, still don't see it. All that stuff could be recreated. The super-woman in the story seems to have a mind and I assume her kind is capable of being part of a normal social network. And a few decades is a Long Time.

On the contrary, I expect both planets would become huge UGH-fields to each other. For men, normal women would be painfully inferior to their current super-women, and the super-men would be something better not thought about for the sake of ego.

Comment author: Alicorn 09 May 2012 09:09:05PM *  7 points [-]

A few decades? In a few decades I'll be in my fifties or sixties. My dad might well still be alive. I expect to still care about my dad when I'm in my fifties or sixties. If he were whisked away to Mars and I was plunked down on Venus with a boreana, why would I quit missing my dad? Why would I lose interest in what Weird Al has been up to lately, for that matter?

(Actually, I'm not even sure I'd quit missing my boyfriends. There's more than one of 'em. It'd take one heckuva boreana to strictly dominate the lot.)

(Also, can people have new kids in this scenario? If so, can they have kids of the opposite sex? I can imagine people going to great lengths just to get that ability.)

Comment author: Bugmaster 09 May 2012 09:01:52PM 0 points [-]

In a few decades, when the smoke clears, the human civilization will consist solely of gay and bi people. They are the ones who will keep advancing the culture, while all the straight people stagnate with their super-spouses.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 09 May 2012 09:14:46PM 0 points [-]

If I accept the premise of the story, it seems to follow that the bi people will also hook up with the superstimulus opposite-sex partners, since they are so much more rewarding than the ordinary same-sex partners.

Comment author: Bugmaster 09 May 2012 09:30:24PM 1 point [-]

One of the key aspects of the story was that men and women got segregated by gender; just to be thorough, the AI put each gender on its own planet. Presumably, merely pairing them up with superstimulus partners was not enough; physical separation was required, as well. So... under this gender-segregation scheme, where would the people who are capable of experiencing same-sex attraction go ?

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 09 May 2012 09:30:49PM 1 point [-]

And I wouldn't assume the AI planned for gay people to be less happy... there are other habitable bodies in the solar system.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 10 May 2012 03:00:01AM 4 points [-]

Sure. Though if I'm to take the need for segregation seriously, it seems to follow that each gay person needs their own planet. It's kind of like the "problem" of creating bathrooms in which nobody can ever be sexually attracted to another patron of the same bathroom... straight people can simply be gender-segregated, but gay people need single-person bathrooms. (Or, well, at most two-person bathrooms.)

Comment author: rkyeun 28 July 2012 10:20:26PM *  0 points [-]

The genie is prohibited from directly manipulating minds, but nothing says that door to the outside leads to the outside and not to the holodeck. Symbolism aside, everyone can still be in their cells, bi or not, and thusly segregated despite location.

And whatever the sexual characteristics of a verthandi or boreana, they are likely designed with bisexual-pleasing capabilities in mind, in weird ways. The genie does know us better than we know ourselves. And this is an aspect it would care about. Using your current mind-equipment, you literally cannot imagine the sex they give. The genie has considered more and designed better than you can.

Comment author: rkyeun 28 July 2012 10:23:30PM *  0 points [-]

Drat. I meant for this to reply to Bugmaster, and confused your comment with it. The resulting comment is a hybrid meant for some chimera of the two of you which does not exist.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 28 July 2012 11:40:58PM 1 point [-]

You've now got me curious what a blending of me and Bugmaster would say in response to your comment.