akshatrathi comments on Value is Fragile - Less Wrong

41 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 29 January 2009 08:46AM

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Comment author: Tim_Tyler 29 January 2009 06:40:59PM 0 points [-]

This post seems almost totally wrong to me. For one thing, its central claim - that without human values the future would, with high probability be dull is not even properly defined.

To be a little clearer, one would need to say something like: if you consider a specified enumeration over the space of possibile utility functions, a random small sample from that space would be "dull" (it might help to say a bit more about what dullness means too, but that is a side issue for now).

That claim might well be true for typical "shortest-first" enumerations in sensible languages - but it is not a very interesting claim - since the dull utility functions would be those which led to an attainable goal - such as "count up to 10 and then stop".

The "open-ended" utilility functions - the ones that resulted in systems that would spread out - would almost inevitably lead to rich complexity. You can't turn the galaxy into paper-clips (or whatever) without extensively mastering science, technology, intergalactic flight, nanotechnology - and so on. So, you need scientists and engineers - and other complicated and interesting things. This conclusion seems so obvious as to hardly be worth discussing to me.

I've explained all this to Eleizer before. After reading this post I still have very little idea about what it is that he isn't getting. He seems to think that making paper clips are boring. However, they are not any more boring than making DNA sequences, and that's the current aim of most living systems.

A prime-seeking civilisation has a competitive disadvantage over one that doesn't have silly, arbitrary bits tacked on to its utility function. It is more likely to be wiped out in a battle with an alien race - and it's more likely to suffer from a mutiny from within. However, that is about all. They are unlikely to lack science, technology, or other interesting stuff.

Comment author: akshatrathi 29 November 2009 11:39:54PM 2 points [-]

However, they are not any more boring than making DNA sequences, and that's the current aim of most living systems.

Making a DNA sequence will count as (an extremely low level activity) [http://lesswrong.com/lw/xr/in_praise_of_boredom/] which is necessary to support non-boring activities. It is a very simple argument that these are the very activity we stop thinking about and concentrate on novel activities.