Jerry_ comments on Interlude with the Confessor (4/8) - Less Wrong

27 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 02 February 2009 09:11AM

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Comment author: pencilears 22 November 2009 08:31:47AM 10 points [-]

alright, you've taunted me into posting. girds my uterus

I wasn't going to post just because weird and anti-female ideas about what sexuality should be in an ideal world are obsequious to science fiction. the idea that women should be nude all the time is a common example, or just that sexuality should be free from emotional commitment (drama), that sex should be considered healthful and natural to be engaged in with as many people as possible with no jealousy or competition. that these ideas are common to science fiction says more to me about what kind of person writes science fiction and what they think of sex than what would be realistic or reasonable. but this series references the ship having it's own 4chan, realism is not to be expected and I understand that.

it's just, I wish the author had thought about what non-consensual sex, about what rape as a concept, as a thing used to torture and to dominate women, really meant before tossing it off as a badly explained line about how much more mature and well adjusted this polyglot culture of the future is.

does the author mean that in this supposed shining utopia of the future that a person can attack another person if the context is sexual? does it mean that all ideas of pair bonding, of marriage and commitment between equals has been abandoned in favor of one night stands? were those stands initiated through an attack, through an impingement on another person's right to autonomy? does it mean that rape in the context of arranged marriages between unwilling strangers is the norm?

this is not explained. rape is legal, that's all there is to it. rape of the underage, rape of the indigent, rape of minors, legal of course, the right of a free society. as far as this was explained.

it seems odd to me that a people so viscerally opposed to cultural infanticide would condone sexual attack.

because that is what rape is, it is an attack. is harming people in other ways legal as well? can I go out for a night on the town of stabbing people? no?

anyway, allow me this moment to object, as rationally as I can, as a person in actual possession of a working vagina, against the idea that rape is, was, or could be, legalized or condoned in any way.

if by rape the author did not mean rape, as many commenters suggest as a defense, then he is either insufficiently articulate or misguided, if he did not mean Rape-rape, but merely snuggle-kisses-rape-hugs then that intent should be better reflected in the text itself. as it is not I am forced to conclude that by rape, the author meant the forcible unwanted sexual victimization and attack on a person or persons by another person or persons.

I would suggest the author examine the blowback around the idea of the Open Source Boob Project for more articulate arguments about the right of women to posses their own bodies. http://feministing.com/archives/009066.html

Comment author: Jerry_ 14 January 2010 02:35:49AM 0 points [-]

My first thought was that the word "rape" must have come to mean something different, for example maybe it's been redefined so that women can still rape men, but a man who forces himself upon a woman is assaulting her, not "raping" her. Changes like this happen in language/culture. (As in the Old Testament, wherein the only reason lesbians aren't sentenced to death is that Moses didn't think of sex as something women could do, but only have done TO them.) But this would have been trivially easy to make clear (ten more words of exposition from the Confessor would have done it), and the author didn't bother.

It seems as though the author was trying to show that The Future Is Shocking and Offensive. It most certainly will be. But the culture we see isn't consistent with the Hey Rape Is Legal Now bombshell, and he's made no attempt to reconcile them. So, yes, the conclusion we're left with is that either the author doesn't understand what rape is, or doesn't care.

Comment author: MugaSofer 02 January 2014 09:20:21PM *  1 point [-]

maybe it's been redefined so that women can still rape men, but a man who forces himself upon a woman is assaulting her, not "raping" her

I am from the actual future - four years after you posted this - and ... what?


Seriously, if your future self is around and can clarify here it would help immensely.

Comment author: [deleted] 02 January 2014 09:31:29PM 0 points [-]

if your future self is around

Jerry_ hasn't commented on LW since January 2010.

Comment author: MugaSofer 02 January 2014 11:26:39PM 0 points [-]

... maybe this will be his surprise return!

Maybe?