wedrifid comments on Epilogue: Atonement (8/8) - Less Wrong

33 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 06 February 2009 11:52AM

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Comment author: wedrifid 19 November 2009 07:56:27AM 1 point [-]

Strictly speaking, it's a signal of an achievement. It provides lots of warm fuzzies, but basically no utilons (beyond those intrinsic to the achievement it signals).

I think this 'strict' use is a distortion of the concept of achievement. This kind achievement is very similar in nature to other achievements and for most part, yes, the part we call an 'achievement' is primarily signal, with any utility beyond that just a bonus.

Comment author: Pavitra 21 November 2009 09:29:34AM 0 points [-]

If you're using 'achievement' in the video game sense, sure. I assumed that 'achievement' meant achieving something that mattered; that is, utility.

It's probably good cognitive hygiene to keep the two as clearly distinct as feasible.

Comment author: wedrifid 21 November 2009 09:37:49AM *  1 point [-]

If you're using 'achievement' in the video game sense

No, I'm using the human sense. The one all linked up to 'success' in ways people don't tend to explicitly understand.

I assumed that 'achievement' meant achieving something that mattered; that is, utility.

I haven't met many people whose utility functions appear restricted to things that matter.

Comment author: Pavitra 21 November 2009 07:51:13PM 0 points [-]

No, I'm using the human sense. The one all linked up to 'success' in ways people don't tend to explicitly understand.

I think that you're talking about near-mode feel-good, while I'm talking about far-mode feel-good.

I haven't met many people whose utility functions appear restricted to things that matter.

To things that matter to you, perhaps. And I haven't met many people that have utility functions; that is, that behave as rational optimizers. But a utility function by definition is restricted to things that matter to the mind that has it.

Comment author: wedrifid 22 November 2009 06:33:01AM 0 points [-]

I think that you're talking about near-mode feel-good, while I'm talking about far-mode feel-good.

I think you are right.