DaFranker comments on (Moral) Truth in Fiction? - Less Wrong
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Comments (82)
These guys sound pretty heroic, but I don't think they're evidence that the racist transatlantic slave trade was worse than the non-racist Roman world. I'm not an expert on either, though.
Part of what I'm trying to assert is that people are capable of treating other people terribly, even in the absence of theories of racial superiority.
I'm pretty sure that the Romans looked up to the Greeks at the same time as enslaving them. And fairly sure that the Greeks enslaved other Greeks.
But you'd need to know a lot more about the classical world than I do to work out what kinds of racial theories were current.
And maybe they did have foreign groups that they mistreated particularly badly. If we think that xenophobia is a built-in feature of the brain then it would be damned weird if the Romans weren't superiority-complex racists. After all, consider the amount of evidence they had that their system was superior and that the gods loved them.
I'd be surprised if it wasn't worse to be the slave of someone who despises you and your type than the slave of someone who accepts you as a brother.
I just don't think any of this is particularly modern.
And on ethical matters I tend to think that progress is upwards (or at least correlated with per-capita GDP). If we think that the recent past was particularly awful it's usually because we've got better records of it.
So here's a prediction for you: There were things going on in the Dark Ages that were worse than either Roman or early Victorian slavery.
The problem is, I can't think of anything worse. There's something particularly terrible about mass industrial slavery. Maybe some passing atrocitologist can help.
I'm not quite an atrocitologist so I have no idea whether some of these things I can think of were actually ever put into practice, but I can think of lots of things worse. I can also guarantee you with 90% confidence that there's a lot of manga (especially doujinshi) out there that do picture things you'd consider much worse, especially when you delve into the darker circles. Some japanese artists have literally become world-renowned 'experts' on the topic of fictional mass atrocity.
I'm not comfortable discussing specific examples without a wall of spoiler prevention features requiring the viewer to pass a mental fortitude test to view the content. I might have mentioned this before, but I've once had an acquaintance bend down and vomit on the spot upon recounting one of my more horrible nightmares. I try to avoid dishing out such mental damage on unprepared individuals nowadays.
Touché. I meant something that was likely to have actually happened on a fairly large scale.
Now I'm all curious.
To hear things so bad they make unprepared listeners spontaneously vomit, not to hear things worse than slavery. There are plenty of those, they just tended not to catch on.