dclayh comments on Do Fandoms Need Awfulness? - Less Wrong

23 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 28 May 2009 06:03AM

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Comment author: dclayh 29 May 2009 05:51:48PM 2 points [-]

I think people like Alicorn who enjoy books for story and plot, become annoyed at unsatisfying endings, etc., generally tend to group themselves into what's called "genre" fiction (particularly SF/F, although SF has the "cool ideas" component also), while people like you who are more attracted to good prose style and what you might call "small-scale enjoyability" tend to group into "classic" fiction.

I have this debate ("what makes a book good?") with my friends frequently, since they're mostly in Alicorn's camp and over the last decade I've drifted steadily into yours.

Comment author: MrHen 29 May 2009 06:25:06PM 0 points [-]

I agree.

I really do not think there is anything inherent in any genre that prevents good writing or good stories. I like cool ideas for stories but get really annoyed when the writing is poor. I would claim I like the story but dislike the writing.

I have this debate ("what makes a book good?") with my friends frequently, since they're mostly in Alicorn's camp and over the last decade I've drifted steadily into yours.

My camp is one where bad writing trumps a good story. A bad story pushes me toward disliking a book with good writing but with a much lesser force.

My justification for this is that it is really easy to come up with a good story and really hard to write well.

For comparison, good stories hold much more weight in other mediums. Movies, in particular, have to have a good story or I will probably not watch it again.

Comment author: dclayh 29 May 2009 06:34:58PM *  0 points [-]

Personally I wouldn't go so far as to say writing "trumps" story, just that they both have significant weight.

My justification for this is that it is really easy to come up with a good story and really hard to write well.

My justification is simply that good writing should be good through its entire power spectrum, from individual word choice, to a well-crafted sentence, to an engaging scene, to a meaningful overarching plot. Having one component that's excellent doesn't justify poor performance in others; everything weighs in together. (Of course, there are some authors (Dan Brown springs to mind) whose prose style is just so awful that I can't make it through even a single page, so I have no chance of appreciating the plot.)