JoeShipley comments on A social norm against unjustified opinions? - Less Wrong

11 Post author: Kaj_Sotala 29 May 2009 11:25AM

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Comment author: AdeleneDawner 29 May 2009 08:10:43PM 5 points [-]

I think you're underestimating the degree of social intelligence required. To pull that off while still keeping the rationalistic habits that such people find offensive, you'd have to:

  • Recognize the problem, which is nontrivial,
  • Find a way of figuring out who falls on which side of the line, without tipping people off,
  • Determine all of the rationalistic habits that are likely to offend people who are not trying to become more rational,
  • Find non-offensive ways of achieving those goals, or find ways of avoiding those situations entirely,
  • Find a way not to slip up in conversation and apply the habits anyway - again, nontrivial. Keeping this degree of focus in realtime is hard.

You'd also probably have to at least to some degree integrate the idea that it's 'okay' (not correct, just acceptable) to be irrational into your general thought process, to avoid unintentional signaling that you think poorly of them. If anything, irrational people are more likely to notice such subtle signals, since so much of their communication is based on them.

Comment author: JoeShipley 29 May 2009 08:18:30PM 0 points [-]

I disagree. It is rational to exploit interpersonal communication for clarity between persons and comfortable use. If the 'language of rationality' can't be understood by the 'irrational people', it is rational to translate best you can, and that can include utilizing societal norms. (For clarity and lubrication of the general process.)

Comment author: AdeleneDawner 29 May 2009 08:30:14PM 2 points [-]

Yes, I agree - my point was that the skill of translating is a difficult one to acquire, not that it's irrational to acquire it.

Comment author: JoeShipley 29 May 2009 08:39:05PM 3 points [-]

Oh, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. Yeah, it can be tiring. I'm a fairly introverted person and need a good amount of downtime between socialization. I guess I was projecting a little -- I use to think social norms were garbage and useless, until I realized neglecting their utility was irrational and it was primarily an emotional bias against them in never feeling like I 'fit in'. Sometimes it feels like you never stop discovering unfortunate things about yourself...