Eliezer_Yudkowsky comments on The Mere Cable Channel Addition Paradox - All

63 Post author: Ghatanathoah 26 July 2012 07:20AM

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Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 29 July 2012 08:43:43PM 20 points [-]

Nice dialogue!

I think that the term "barely worth living" is a terrible source of equivocation that underlies a lot of the apparent paradoxicalness. "Barely worth living" can mean that, if you're already alive and don't want to die, your life is almost but not quite horrible enough that you would rather commit suicide than endure. But if you're told that somebody like this exists, it is sad news that you want to hear as little as possible. You may not want to kill them, but you also wouldn't have that child if you were told that was what your child's life would be like. What Parfit postulates should be called, to avoid equivocation, "A life barely worth celebrating" - it's good news and you say "Yay!" but very softly. I'd even argue that this should be a universal standard for all discussions of the Repugnant Conclusion.

Comment author: private_messaging 02 August 2012 06:11:34AM 11 points [-]

I think 'barely worth living' is universally applicable. Anyone's life can be seen as 'barely worth living' by sufficiently advanced spoiled child. E.g. we would see all cavemen's lives as 'barely worth living' all while those guys say, ohh the hunting been great this year.

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 30 July 2012 10:52:19AM 7 points [-]

Reading your comment (and others in this vein) and realizing that the RC isn't as bad as I'd thought it was, and therefore doesn't show human morals to be so inconsistent as I'd thought them to be, makes me update towards human morals in general maybe not being so inconsistent at all. (At least within an individual; not so much between cultures.)

Comment author: [deleted] 30 July 2012 10:09:09AM *  2 points [-]

Yes, I had thought about setting the zero of the function to be summed across individuals to a higher level than “just barely good enough for them not to want to die”. The problem with that is that then there would be people who don't want to die but still have a negative utility, and even a total utilitarian would conclude they had better die (at least in “dry water” models when you neglect the grief of their friends and family, and the cessation of the externalities of their life).

Edit: It looks like “dry water” has acquired a meaning totally unrelated to the one I had in mind. (It was the derogatory term John von Neumann used to refer to models of fluids without viscosity, whose proprieties are very different from those of real fluids.)

Comment author: Ghatanathoah 30 July 2012 07:18:58AM 1 point [-]

What Parfit postulates should be called, to avoid equivocation, "A life barely worth celebrating" - it's good news and you say "Yay!" but very softly. I'd even argue that this should be a universal standard for all discussions of the Repugnant Conclusion.

Excellent point. I'll try to remember to do that if I end up discussing this again.

Comment author: shminux 30 July 2012 07:34:57AM 6 points [-]

"barely worth creating" is probably a less ambiguous term.