MIRI's 2015 Winter Fundraiser!
MIRI's Winter Fundraising Drive has begun! Our current progress, updated live:
Like our last fundraiser, this will be a non-matching fundraiser with multiple funding targets our donors can choose between to help shape MIRI’s trajectory. The drive will run until December 31st, and will help support MIRI's research efforts aimed at ensuring that smarter-than-human AI systems have a positive impact.
Marketing Rationality
What is your opinion on rationality-promoting articles by Gleb Tsipursky / Intentional Insights? Here is what I think:
The Sally-Anne fallacy
Cross-posted from my blog
I'd like to coin a term. The Sally-Anne fallacy is the mistake of assuming that somone believes something, simply because that thing is true.1
The name comes from the Sally-Anne test, used in developmental psychology to detect theory of mind. Someone who lacks theory of mind will fail the Sally-Anne test, thinking that Sally knows where the marble is. The Sally-Anne fallacy is also a failure of theory of mind.
In internet arguments, this will often come up as part of a chain of reasoning, such as: you think X; X implies Y; therefore you think Y. Or: you support X; X leads to Y; therefore you support Y.2
So for example, we have this complaint about the words "African dialect" used in Age of Ultron. The argument goes: a dialect is a variation on a language, therefore Marvel thinks "African" is a language.
You think "African" has dialects; "has dialects" implies "is a language"; therefore you think "African" is a language.
Or maybe Marvel just doesn't know what a "dialect" is.
This is also a mistake I was pointing at in Fascists and Rakes. You think it's okay to eat tic-tacs; tic-tacs are sentient; therefore you think it's okay to eat sentient things. Versus: you think I should be forbidden from eating tic-tacs; tic-tacs are nonsentient; therefore you think I should be forbidden from eating nonsentient things. No, in both cases the defendant is just wrong about whether tic-tacs are sentient.
Many political conflicts include arguments that look like this. You fight our cause; our cause is the cause of [good thing]; therefore you oppose [good thing]. Sometimes people disagree about what's good, but sometimes they just disagree about how to get there, and think that a cause is harmful to its stated goals. Thus, liberals and libertarians symmetrically accuse each other of not caring about the poor.3
If you want to convince someone to change their mind, it's important to know what they're wrong about. The Sally-Anne fallacy causes us to mistarget our counterarguments, and to mistake potential allies for inevitable enemies.
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From the outside, this looks like "simply because you believe that thing".
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Another possible misunderstanding here, is if you agree that X leads to Y and Y is bad, but still think X is worth it.
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Of course, sometimes people will pretend not to believe the obvious truth so that they can further their dastardly ends. But sometimes they're just wrong. And sometimes they'll be right, and the obvious truth will be untrue.
Less Wrong Study Hall: Now With 100% Less Tinychat
Eight months ago, I announced that the Less Wrong Study Hall, a virtual coworking space where people do pomodoros together, has moved to Complice. Complice is a software system I made to help people achieve their goals. About 20% of rationalists who've tried it have started using it full-time, which by my math gives signing up positive expected value. Anyway...
What follows is a brief history of the LWSH's development thus far. If you just wanna try it, click here: complice.co/room/lesswrong
By embedding the original tinychat window within a larger page, I let users see what the pomodoro timer was up to as soon as they joined, and the page also doesn't let breaks run overtime because the timer just keeps ticking. Also, users could now show a persistent status of what they're working on.
Linkposts now live!

You can now submit links to LW! As the rationality community has grown up, more and more content has moved off LW to other places, and so rather than trying to generate more content here we'll instead try to collect more content here. My hope is that Less Wrong becomes something like "the Rationalist RSS," where people can discover what's new and interesting without necessarily being plugged in to the various diaspora communities.
Some general norms, subject to change:
- It's okay to link someone else's work, unless they specifically ask you not to. It's also okay to link your own work; if you want to get LW karma for things you make off-site, drop a link here as soon as you publish it.
- It's okay to link old stuff, but let's try to keep it to less than 5 old posts a day. The first link that I made is to Yudkowsky's Guide to Writing Intelligent Characters.
- It's okay to link to something that you think rationalists will be interested in, even if it's not directly related to rationality. If it's political, think long and hard before deciding to submit that link.
- It's not okay to post duplicates.
To contribute to AI safety, consider doing AI research
Among those concerned about risks from advanced AI, I've encountered people who would be interested in a career in AI research, but are worried that doing so would speed up AI capability relative to safety. I think it is a mistake for AI safety proponents to avoid going into the field for this reason (better reasons include being well-positioned to do AI safety work, e.g. at MIRI or FHI). This mistake contributed to me choosing statistics rather than computer science for my PhD, which I have some regrets about, though luckily there is enough overlap between the two fields that I can work on machine learning anyway. I think the value of having more AI experts who are worried about AI safety is far higher than the downside of adding a few drops to the ocean of people trying to advance AI. Here are several reasons for this:
- Concerned researchers can inform and influence their colleagues, especially if they are outspoken about their views.
- Studying and working on AI brings understanding of the current challenges and breakthroughs in the field, which can usefully inform AI safety work (e.g. wireheading in reinforcement learning agents).
- Opportunities to work on AI safety are beginning to spring up within academia and industry, e.g. through FLI grants. In the next few years, it will be possible to do an AI-safety-focused PhD or postdoc in computer science, which would hit two birds with one stone.
To elaborate on #1, one of the prevailing arguments against taking long-term AI safety seriously is that not enough experts in the AI field are worried. Several prominent researchers have commented on the potential risks (Stuart Russell, Bart Selman, Murray Shanahan, Shane Legg, and others), and more are concerned but keep quiet for reputational reasons. An accomplished, strategically outspoken and/or well-connected expert can make a big difference in the attitude distribution in the AI field and the level of familiarity with the actual concerns (which are not about malevolence, sentience, or marching robot armies). Having more informed skeptics who have maybe even read Superintelligence, and fewer uninformed skeptics who think AI safety proponents are afraid of Terminators, would produce much needed direct and productive discussion on these issues. As the proportion of informed and concerned researchers in the field approaches critical mass, the reputational consequences for speaking up will decrease.
A year after FLI's Puerto Rico conference, the subject of long-term AI safety is no longer taboo among AI researchers, but remains rather controversial. Addressing AI risk on the long term will require safety work to be a significant part of the field, and close collaboration between those working on safety and capability of advanced AI. Stuart Russell makes the apt analogy that "just as nuclear fusion researchers consider the problem of containment of fusion reactions as one of the primary problems of their field, issues of control and safety will become central to AI as the field matures". If more people who are already concerned about AI safety join the field, we can make this happen faster, and help wisdom win the race with capability.
(Cross-posted from my blog. Thanks to Janos Kramar for his help with editing this post.)
Notes on the Safety in Artificial Intelligence conference
These are my notes and observations after attending the Safety in Artificial Intelligence (SafArtInt) conference, which was co-hosted by the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy and Carnegie Mellon University on June 27 and 28. This isn't an organized summary of the content of the conference; rather, it's a selection of points which are relevant to the control problem. As a result, it suffers from selection bias: it looks like superintelligence and control-problem-relevant issues were discussed frequently, when in reality those issues were discussed less and I didn't write much about the more mundane parts.
SafArtInt has been the third out of a planned series of four conferences. The purpose of the conference series was twofold: the OSTP wanted to get other parts of the government moving on AI issues, and they also wanted to inform public opinion.
The other three conferences are about near term legal, social, and economic issues of AI. SafArtInt was about near term safety and reliability in AI systems. It was effectively the brainchild of Dr. Ed Felten, the deputy U.S. chief technology officer for the White House, who came up with the idea for it last year. CMU is a top computer science university and many of their own researchers attended, as well as some students. There were also researchers from other universities, some people from private sector AI including both Silicon Valley and government contracting, government researchers and policymakers from groups such as DARPA and NASA, a few people from the military/DoD, and a few control problem researchers. As far as I could tell, everyone except a few university researchers were from the U.S., although I did not meet many people. There were about 70-100 people watching the presentations at any given time, and I had conversations with about twelve of the people who were not affiliated with existential risk organizations, as well as of course all of those who were affiliated. The conference was split with a few presentations on the 27th and the majority of presentations on the 28th. Not everyone was there for both days.
Felten believes that neither "robot apocalypses" nor "mass unemployment" are likely. It soon became apparent that the majority of others present at the conference felt the same way with regard to superintelligence. The general intention among researchers and policymakers at the conference could be summarized as follows: we need to make sure that the AI systems we develop in the near future will not be responsible for any accidents, because if accidents do happen then they will spark public fears about AI, which would lead to a dearth of funding for AI research and an inability to realize the corresponding social and economic benefits. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that they strongly care about safety in its own right and have significant pragmatic needs for robust and reliable AI systems.
Most of the talks were about verification and reliability in modern day AI systems. So they were concerned with AI systems that would give poor results or be unreliable in the narrow domains where they are being applied in the near future. They mostly focused on "safety-critical" systems, where failure of an AI program would result in serious negative consequences: automated vehicles were a common topic of interest, as well as the use of AI in healthcare systems. A recurring theme was that we have to be more rigorous in demonstrating safety and do actual hazard analyses on AI systems, and another was that we need the AI safety field to succeed in ways that the cybersecurity field has failed. Another general belief was that long term AI safety, such as concerns about the ability of humans to control AIs, was not a serious issue.
On average, the presentations were moderately technical. They were mostly focused on machine learning systems, although there was significant discussion of cybersecurity techniques.
The first talk was given by Eric Horvitz of Microsoft. He discussed some approaches for pushing into new directions in AI safety. Instead of merely trying to reduce the errors spotted according to one model, we should look out for "unknown unknowns" by stacking models and looking at problems which appear on any of them, a theme which would be presented by other researchers as well in later presentations. He discussed optimization under uncertain parameters, sensitivity analysis to uncertain parameters, and 'wireheading' or short-circuiting of reinforcement learning systems (which he believes can be guarded against by using 'reflective analysis'). Finally, he brought up the concerns about superintelligence, which sparked amused reactions in the audience. He said that scientists should address concerns about superintelligence, which he aptly described as the 'elephant in the room', noting that it was the reason that some people were at the conference. He said that scientists will have to engage with public concerns, while also noting that there were experts who were worried about superintelligence and that there would have to be engagement with the experts' concerns. He did not comment on whether he believed that these concerns were reasonable or not.
An issue which came up in the Q&A afterwards was that we need to deal with mis-structured utility functions in AI, because it is often the case that the specific tradeoffs and utilities which humans claim to value often lead to results which the humans don't like. So we need to have structural uncertainty about our utility models. The difficulty of finding good objective functions for AIs would eventually be discussed in many other presentations as well.
The next talk was given by Andrew Moore of Carnegie Mellon University, who claimed that his talk represented the consensus of computer scientists at the school. He claimed that the stakes of AI safety were very high - namely, that AI has the capability to save many people's lives in the near future, but if there are any accidents involving AI then public fears could lead to freezes in AI research and development. He highlighted the public's irrational tendencies wherein a single accident could cause people to overlook and ignore hundreds of invisible lives saved. He specifically mentioned a 12-24 month timeframe for these issues.
Moore said that verification of AI system safety will be difficult due to the combinatorial explosion of AI behaviors. He talked about meta-machine-learning as a solution to this, something which is being investigated under the direction of Lawrence Schuette at the Office of Naval Research. Moore also said that military AI systems require high verification standards and that development timelines for these systems are long. He talked about two different approaches to AI safety, stochastic testing and theorem proving - the process of doing the latter often leads to the discovery of unsafe edge cases.
He also discussed AI ethics, giving an example 'trolley problem' where AI cars would have to choose whether to hit a deer in order to provide a slightly higher probability of survival for the human driver. He said that we would need hash-defined constants to tell vehicle AIs how many deer a human is worth. He also said that we would need to find compromises in death-pleasantry tradeoffs, for instance where the safety of self-driving cars depends on the speed and routes on which they are driven. He compared the issue to civil engineering where engineers have to operate with an assumption about how much money they would spend to save a human life.
He concluded by saying that we need policymakers, company executives, scientists, and startups to all be involved in AI safety. He said that the research community stands to gain or lose together, and that there is a shared responsibility among researchers and developers to avoid triggering another AI winter through unsafe AI designs.
The next presentation was by Richard Mallah of the Future of Life Institute, who was there to represent "Medium Term AI Safety". He pointed out the explicit/implicit distinction between different modeling techniques in AI systems, as well as the explicit/implicit distinction between different AI actuation techniques. He talked about the difficulty of value specification and the concept of instrumental subgoals as an important issue in the case of complex AIs which are beyond human understanding. He said that even a slight misalignment of AI values with regard to human values along one parameter could lead to a strongly negative outcome, because machine learning parameters don't strictly correspond to the things that humans care about.
Mallah stated that open-world discovery leads to self-discovery, which can lead to reward hacking or a loss of control. He underscored the importance of causal accounting, which is distinguishing causation from correlation in AI systems. He said that we should extend machine learning verification to self-modification. Finally, he talked about introducing non-self-centered ontology to AI systems and bounding their behavior.
The audience was generally quiet and respectful during Richard's talk. I sensed that at least a few of them labelled him as part of the 'superintelligence out-group' and dismissed him accordingly, but I did not learn what most people's thoughts or reactions were. In the next panel featuring three speakers, he wasn't the recipient of any questions regarding his presentation or ideas.
Tom Mitchell from CMU gave the next talk. He talked about both making AI systems safer, and using AI to make other systems safer. He said that risks to humanity from other kinds of issues besides AI were the "big deals of 2016" and that we should make sure that the potential of AIs to solve these problems is realized. He wanted to focus on the detection and remediation of all failures in AI systems. He said that it is a novel issue that learning systems defy standard pre-testing ("as Richard mentioned") and also brought up the purposeful use of AI for dangerous things.
Some interesting points were raised in the panel. Andrew did not have a direct response to the implications of AI ethics being determined by the predominantly white people of the US/UK where most AIs are being developed. He said that ethics in AIs will have to be decided by society, regulators, manufacturers, and human rights organizations in conjunction. He also said that our cost functions for AIs will have to get more and more complicated as AIs get better, and he said that he wants to separate unintended failures from superintelligence type scenarios. On trolley problems in self driving cars and similar issues, he said "it's got to be complicated and messy."
Dario Amodei of Google Deepbrain, who co-authored the paper on concrete problems in AI safety, gave the next talk. He said that the public focus is too much on AGI/ASI and wants more focus on concrete/empirical approaches. He discussed the same problems that pose issues in advanced general AI, including flawed objective functions and reward hacking. He said that he sees long term concerns about AGI/ASI as "extreme versions of accident risk" and that he thinks it's too early to work directly on them, but he believes that if you want to deal with them then the best way to do it is to start with safety in current systems. Mostly he summarized the Google paper in his talk.
In her presentation, Claire Le Goues of CMU said "before we talk about Skynet we should focus on problems that we already have." She mostly talked about analogies between software bugs and AI safety, the similarities and differences between the two and what we can learn from software debugging to help with AI safety.
Robert Rahmer of IARPA discussed CAUSE, a cyberintelligence forecasting program which promises to help predict cyber attacks. It is a program which is still being put together.
In the panel of the above three, autonomous weapons were discussed, but no clear policy stances were presented.
John Launchbury gave a talk on DARPA research and the big picture of AI development. He pointed out that DARPA work leads to commercial applications and that progress in AI comes from sustained government investment. He classified AI capabilities into "describing," "predicting," and "explaining" in order of increasing difficulty, and he pointed out that old fashioned "describing" still plays a large role in AI verification. He said that "explaining" AIs would need transparent decisionmaking and probabilistic programming (the latter would also be discussed by others at the conference).
The next talk came from Jason Gaverick Matheny, the director of IARPA. Matheny talked about four requirements in current and future AI systems: verification, validation, security, and control. He wanted "auditability" in AI systems as a weaker form of explainability. He talked about the importance of "corner cases" for national intelligence purposes, the low probability, high stakes situations where we have limited data - these are situations where we have significant need for analysis but where the traditional machine learning approach doesn't work because of its overwhelming focus on data. Another aspect of national defense is that it has a slower decision tempo, longer timelines, and longer-viewing optics about future events.
He said that assessing local progress in machine learning development would be important for global security and that we therefore need benchmarks to measure progress in AIs. He ended with a concrete invitation for research proposals from anyone (educated or not), for both large scale research and for smaller studies ("seedlings") that could take us "from disbelief to doubt".
The difference in timescales between different groups was something I noticed later on, after hearing someone from the DoD describe their agency as having a longer timeframe than the Homeland Security Agency, and someone from the White House describe their work as being crisis reactionary.
The next presentation was from Andrew Grotto, senior director of cybersecurity policy at the National Security Council. He drew a close parallel from the issue of genetically modified crops in Europe in the 1990's to modern day artificial intelligence. He pointed out that Europe utterly failed to achieve widespread cultivation of GMO crops as a result of public backlash. He said that the widespread economic and health benefits of GMO crops were ignored by the public, who instead focused on a few health incidents which undermined trust in the government and crop producers. He had three key points: that risk frameworks matter, that you should never assume that the benefits of new technology will be widely perceived by the public, and that we're all in this together with regard to funding, research progress and public perception.
In the Q&A between Launchbury, Matheny, and Grotto after Grotto's presentation, it was mentioned that the economic interests of farmers worried about displacement also played a role in populist rejection of GMOs, and that a similar dynamic could play out with regard to automation causing structural unemployment. Grotto was also asked what to do about bad publicity which seeks to sink progress in order to avoid risks. He said that meetings like SafArtInt and open public dialogue were good.
One person asked what Launchbury wanted to do about AI arms races with multiple countries trying to "get there" and whether he thinks we should go "slow and secure" or "fast and risky" in AI development, a question which provoked laughter in the audience. He said we should go "fast and secure" and wasn't concerned. He said that secure designs for the Internet once existed, but the one which took off was the one which was open and flexible.
Another person asked how we could avoid discounting outliers in our models, referencing Matheny's point that we need to include corner cases. Matheny affirmed that data quality is a limiting factor to many of our machine learning capabilities. At IARPA, we generally try to include outliers until they are sure that they are erroneous, said Matheny.
Another presentation came from Tom Dietterich, president of the Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence. He said that we have not focused enough on safety, reliability and robustness in AI and that this must change. Much like Eric Horvitz, he drew a distinction between robustness against errors within the scope of a model and robustness against unmodeled phenomena. On the latter issue, he talked about solutions such as expanding the scope of models, employing multiple parallel models, and doing creative searches for flaws - the latter doesn't enable verification that a system is safe, but it nevertheless helps discover many potential problems. He talked about knowledge-level redundancy as a method of avoiding misspecification - for instance, systems could identify objects by an "ownership facet" as well as by a "goal facet" to produce a combined concept with less likelihood of overlooking key features. He said that this would require wider experiences and more data.
There were many other speakers who brought up a similar set of issues: the user of cybersecurity techniques to verify machine learning systems, the failures of cybersecurity as a field, opportunities for probabilistic programming, and the need for better success in AI verification. Inverse reinforcement learning was extensively discussed as a way of assigning values. Jeanette Wing of Microsoft talked about the need for AIs to reason about the continuous and the discrete in parallel, as well as the need for them to reason about uncertainty (with potential meta levels all the way up). One point which was made by Sarah Loos of Google was that proving the safety of an AI system can be computationally very expensive, especially given the combinatorial explosion of AI behaviors.
In one of the panels, the idea of government actions to ensure AI safety was discussed. No one was willing to say that the government should regulate AI designs. Instead they stated that the government should be involved in softer ways, such as guiding and working with AI developers, and setting standards for certification.
Pictures: https://imgur.com/a/49eb7
In between these presentations I had time to speak to individuals and listen in on various conversations. A high ranking person from the Department of Defense stated that the real benefit of autonomous systems would be in terms of logistical systems rather than weaponized applications. A government AI contractor drew the connection between Mallah's presentation and the recent press revolving around superintelligence, and said he was glad that the government wasn't worried about it.
I talked to some insiders about the status of organizations such as MIRI, and found that the current crop of AI safety groups could use additional donations to become more established and expand their programs. There may be some issues with the organizations being sidelined; after all, the Google Deepbrain paper was essentially similar to a lot of work by MIRI, just expressed in somewhat different language, and was more widely received in mainstream AI circles.
In terms of careers, I found that there is significant opportunity for a wide range of people to contribute to improving government policy on this issue. Working at a group such as the Office of Science and Technology Policy does not necessarily require advanced technical education, as you can just as easily enter straight out of a liberal arts undergraduate program and build a successful career as long as you are technically literate. (At the same time, the level of skepticism about long term AI safety at the conference hinted to me that the signalling value of a PhD in computer science would be significant.) In addition, there are large government budgets in the seven or eight figure range available for qualifying research projects. I've come to believe that it would not be difficult to find or create AI research programs that are relevant to long term AI safety while also being practical and likely to be funded by skeptical policymakers and officials.
I also realized that there is a significant need for people who are interested in long term AI safety to have basic social and business skills. Since there is so much need for persuasion and compromise in government policy, there is a lot of value to be had in being communicative, engaging, approachable, appealing, socially savvy, and well-dressed. This is not to say that everyone involved in long term AI safety is missing those skills, of course.
I was surprised by the refusal of almost everyone at the conference to take long term AI safety seriously, as I had previously held the belief that it was more of a mixed debate given the existence of expert computer scientists who were involved in the issue. I sensed that the recent wave of popular press and public interest in dangerous AI has made researchers and policymakers substantially less likely to take the issue seriously. None of them seemed to be familiar with actual arguments or research on the control problem, so their opinions didn't significantly change my outlook on the technical issues. I strongly suspect that the majority of them had their first or possibly only exposure to the idea of the control problem after seeing badly written op-eds and news editorials featuring comments from the likes of Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking, which would naturally make them strongly predisposed to not take the issue seriously. In the run-up to the conference, websites and press releases didn't say anything about whether this conference would be about long or short term AI safety, and they didn't make any reference to the idea of superintelligence.
I sympathize with the concerns and strategy given by people such as Andrew Moore and Andrew Grotto, which make perfect sense if (and only if) you assume that worries about long term AI safety are completely unfounded. For the community that is interested in long term AI safety, I would recommend that we avoid competitive dynamics by (a) demonstrating that we are equally strong opponents of bad press, inaccurate news, and irrational public opinion which promotes generic uninformed fears over AI, (b) explaining that we are not interested in removing funding for AI research (even if you think that slowing down AI development is a good thing, restricting funding yields only limited benefits in terms of changing overall timelines, whereas those who are not concerned about long term AI safety would see a restriction of funding as a direct threat to their interests and projects, so it makes sense to cooperate here in exchange for other concessions), and (c) showing that we are scientifically literate and focused on the technical concerns. I do not believe that there is necessarily a need for the two "sides" on this to be competing against each other, so it was disappointing to see an implication of opposition at the conference.
Anyway, Ed Felten announced a request for information from the general public, seeking popular and scientific input on the government's policies and attitudes towards AI: https://www.whitehouse.gov/webform/rfi-preparing-future-artificial-intelligence
Overall, I learned quite a bit and benefited from the experience, and I hope the insight I've gained can be used to improve the attitudes and approaches of the long term AI safety community.
A Rationalist Guide to OkCupid
There's a lot of data and research on what makes people successful at online dating, but I don't know anyone who actually tried to wholeheartedly apply this to themselves. I decided to be that person: I implemented lessons from data, economics, game theory and of course rationality in my profile and strategy and OkCupid. Shockingly, it worked! I got a lot of great dates, learned a ton and found the love of my life. I didn't expect dating to be my "rationalist win", but it happened.
Here's the first part of the story, I hope you'll find some useful tips and maybe a dollop of inspiration among all the silly jokes.
P.S.
Does anyone know who curates the "Latest on rationality blogs" toolbar? What are the requirements to be included?
Diaspora roundup thread, 15th June 2016
This is a new experimental weekly thread.
Guidelines: Top-level comments here should be links to things written by members of the rationalist community, preferably that would be interesting specifically to this community. Self-promotion is totally fine. Including a very brief summary or excerpt is great, but not required. Generally stick to one link per top-level comment. Recent links are preferred.
Rule: Do not link to anyone who does not want to be linked to. In particular, Scott Alexander has asked people not to link to specific posts on his tumblr. As far as I know he's never rescinded that. Do not link to posts on his tumblr.
Attention! Financial scam targeting Less Wrong users
Recently, multiple suspicious user accounts were created on Less Wrong. These accounts don't post any content in the forum. Instead, they are used only to send private messages to the existing users.
Many users have received a copy of the same message, but different variants exist, too. Here are the examples I know about. If you have received a different variant, please post it in a comment below this article:
Hi good day. My boss is interested on donating to MIRI's project and he is wondering if he could send money through you and you donate to miri through your company and thus accelertaing the value created. He wants to use "match donations" as a way of donating thats why he is looking for people in companies like you. I want to discuss more about this so if you could see this message please give me a reply. Thank you!
I don't know yet about anyone who replied and got scammed, so this is all based on indirect evidence. If you got scammed, please tell me. If you are ashamed, I can publish your story anonymously. Your story could help other potential victims.
Most likely, the scheme is the following:
- The scammer will send you money.
- Then they will ask some of the money back because they changed their mind, or they mistakenly sent you more than they wanted, or their financial situation suddenly changed, or whatever.
- After receiving the money from you, they will flag the original transaction as a fraud, so they get back the money they originally sent you, plus the money you sent them back. Then they disappear, or it will turn out they used a stolen identity, etc.
(Thanks to
If you replied to the original message and now you are already in the middle of the process, please inform your bank as soon as possible! Even if the step 2 didn't happen yet, so you can still get out without losing money, warning your bank about the scammer could help other potential victims.
Warning: If you have already received a check or a payment confirmation, and someone is asking you to send the overpayment back quickly, do not send anything. The check or the payment confirmation is fake, and the goal is to make you send money before you find out. (Thanks to

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