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blogospheroid comments on Greg Egan disses stand-ins for Overcoming Bias, SIAI in new book - Less Wrong Discussion

35 Post author: Kaj_Sotala 07 October 2010 06:55AM

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Comment author: XiXiDu 07 October 2010 09:10:05AM 11 points [-]

I've already got that book, I have to read it soon :-)

Here is more from Greg Egan:

I think there’s a limit to this process of Copernican dethronement: I believe that humans have already crossed a threshold that, in a certain sense, puts us on an equal footing with any other being who has mastered abstract reasoning. There’s a notion in computing science of “Turing completeness”, which says that once a computer can perform a set of quite basic operations, it can be programmed to do absolutely any calculation that any other computer can do. Other computers might be faster, or have more memory, or have multiple processors running at the same time, but my 1988 Amiga 500 really could be programmed to do anything my 2008 iMac can do — apart from responding to external events in real time — if only I had the patience to sit and swap floppy disks all day long. I suspect that something broadly similar applies to minds and the class of things they can understand: other beings might think faster than us, or have easy access to a greater store of facts, but underlying both mental processes will be the same basic set of general-purpose tools. So if we ever did encounter those billion-year-old aliens, I’m sure they’d have plenty to tell us that we didn’t yet know — but given enough patience, and a very large notebook, I believe we’d still be able to come to grips with whatever they had to say.

What's really cool about all this is that I just have to wait and see.

Comment author: blogospheroid 08 October 2010 10:33:45AM *  13 points [-]

So, what Greg Egan is saying is that the methods of epistemic rationality and creativity are all mostly known by humans, all we lack is memory space.

I sincerely doubt it. I genuinely believe Anna Salamon's statement , that humans are only on the cusp of general intelligence, is closer to the truth.

EDITED : to add hyperlink to Anna Salamon's article

Comment author: XiXiDu 08 October 2010 12:39:06PM 6 points [-]

What is productive cannot be judged in advance if you are facing unknown unknowns. And the very nature of scientific advances is an evolutionary process, not one of deliberate design but discovery. We may very well be able to speed up certain weak computational problems by sheer brute force but not solve problems by creating an advance problem solving machine.

That we do not ask ourselves what we are trying to achieve is a outstanding feature of our ability to learn and change our habits. If we would all be the productive machines that you might have in mind, then the religious people would stay religious and the bushman would keep striving for a successful chase even after they build a supermarket in front of his village. Our noisy and bloated nature is fundamental to our diversity and ability to discover the unknown unknowns that the highly focused, productive and change adverse autistic mind would never come across or care about. Pigeons outperform humans at the Monty Hall Dilemma because they are less methodical.

What I'm trying to say is that the idea of superhuman intelligence is not as clear as it is portrayed here. Greg Egan may very well be right. That is not to say that once we learnt about a certain problem there isn't a more effective way to solve it than using the human mind. But I wouldn't bet my money on the kind of god-like intelligence that is somehow about to bootstrap itself out of the anthropocentric coding it emerged from.